Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Netserk]

The UCI have created a monster, simply too big to fail now so I think Pogacar will be another Usain Bolt, he will go through his career without getting busted. The casual fan won’t be too bothered anyway.

It’s hard to feel too sorry for the majority of the other riders though, they are mostly complicit and seem happy enough to eulogise about the goat. If I’m clean trying to compete against that I’m either left seething with anger or I leave the sport.

Clean riders are not strong enough to be more than helpers in the races Pogi wins, if there is any. Pogi doesn't make a difference for them, the strength of the current dope that is widespread in the peloton does.

 

[Red Rick]

Clean riders are not strong enough to be more than helpers in the races Pogi wins, if there is any. Pogi doesn't make a difference for them, the strength of the current dope that is widespread in the peloton does.

I'm really convinced clean riders who really don't want to dope get filtered out extremely early in youth/amateur levels. Maybe even youth doping is basically a necessity to hit certain levels later on, but that I don't know. I know it's a thing in tennis that juniors take HGH while in the youth categories.

 

[Cassirer]

I would understand this meme if he was an American or from one of the major cycling nations. But a small Eastern European nation I don't get?

I don't follow social media but hasn't he like the biggest instagram/tiktok/whatever audience by far? And if you read about cycling in general news outlets, you read about pogacar (maybe + vingegaard). Imo there is no question him being popped would cause cycling more image and sponsorship trouble than almost anyone in the peloton and therefore the "too big to fail" suspicion has merit, no matter his nationality.

 

[SorelyBoy]

The UCI did everything they could to protect Armstrong. Only when people came forward and the evidence and the media noise became overwhelming did they do anything. It’ll be the same with this joker. Everyone knows what’s going on, especially the other teams and their riders. Look at UAE’s performance this year. Hilarious. Uncle Mauro is already plotting his next Frankenstein Monster movie in Del Toro.

 

[kingjr]

If you generally believe that Pogacar is clean, I'm not going to argue, it's your opinion.

I don't believe it's impossible, that's all.

 

[ivanic]

The controlling factor as you allude would be other teams and riders. They would risk legal action by making public accusations against Pogacar that they couldn't prove in court. But behind closed doors there is nothing stopping them making complaints via the right channels - even journalists. But nothing? Surely there are David Walsh's out there wanting to make a name for themselves by uncovering this scandal?

My thought is he isn't doing anything other top teams and riders are not. But perhaps he is a super responder to those methods along with just being a better talent.

This is a key point.

Why doesn't someone write an anonymous letter? Maybe because they all want to race at UAE?

I understand you can't do it directly, but why not in this way?

 

[ivanic]

I don't believe it's impossible, that's all.

I respect your opinion, but it seems impossible to me that there are still people stuck in these thoughts, even just looking at the names of those who manage this boy.

 

[kingjr]

I respect your opinion, but it seems impossible to me that there are still people stuck in these thoughts, even just looking at the names of those who manage this boy.

Stuck in what thoughts?

 

[Cookster15]

I don't follow social media but hasn't he like the biggest instagram/tiktok/whatever audience by far?

He is the most dominant cyclist since Merckyx. In these days of social media I would be surprised if he wasn't also by far the most popular cyclist.

Maybe because they all want to race at UAE?

It’s not just riders. Sponsors and rival teams have much bigger reasons to bring down Pogacar if he truly enjoys an unfair advantage.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

He is the most dominant cyclist since Merckyx. In these days of social media I would be surprised if he wasn't also by far the most popular cyclist.

It’s not just riders. Sponsors and rival teams have much bigger reasons to bring down Pogacar if he truly enjoys an unfair advantage.

Wouldn't bringing down Pog hurt cycling's entire image though? I mean if the GOAT that many get excited about is found to be a total fraud I would think some would just assume the whole sport is a fraud. So I would think the riders would be aware of that and that's why they don't speak up if they know something...

 

[Raest]

Pretty sure he attacked 100k out.

80 something as far as i remember. He went with Sivakov then dropped him. They did some crazy watts in the process

 

[Cookster15]

Wouldn't bringing down Pog hurt cycling's entire image though? I mean if the GOAT that many get excited about is found to be a total fraud I would think some would just assume the whole sport is a fraud. So I would think the riders would be aware of that and that's why they don't speak up if they know something...

Maybe, but the sport has survived multiple scandals over the years. Didn’t we think the same of Lance - and he was an American cancer survivor with wider possible global appeal than a Slovenian? When Lance was busted many did think the sport was a total fraud - completely oblivious to what we know occurs in other bigger sports, including American sports but also soccer (Operación Puerto springs to mind).

I think riders don't speak up for the same reason they have never spoken up: You don't spit in the soup and they think Pogacar is doing similar as them. For example, we should remind ourselves Remco also beat Pantani's EPO era PdB record.

And none of this is stopping another David Walsh from lifting the lid. The sport (and the UCI) survived just fine after Walsh did his thing.

 

[dr.eve]

I believe Pogacar responds well to whatever Gianetti is cooking.

But I think most of you here are looking into all these things too deeply. They do not need UCI or other big sponsors in on it. They have Gianetti and they have UAE with unlimited resources, and Im pretty sure we can see more than just Pogacar responding good to whatever UAE is doing. As long as no one can proof anything nothing happens, same happened time and time before.

And why no one is looking? The media, the sponsors, the UCI they are mostly numb. They do not believe it to be possible. Like many here as well simply do not believe that drug style doping is feasible anymore. It has to be motor doping and what not. I honestly think if they are doing something with doping, its good old fashioned doping that simply is not being detected. It always has been that and it will be like that. Besides that, almost never has anyone ever really spoken completely freely about how the doping happened in the past, maybe Lance has actually been the most open about it thus far. For example in the Netherlands we have Boogerd and others who admitted they doped, but have they ever really explained how? No... They don't. They don't rat on each other, their doctors, their teams and they never will.

Don't over complicate things, that is the exact reason why people believe we have the cleanest era ever (while I think we do not).

 

[masking_agent]

So after yesterday's "not normal" ride by Pogi, and no Walsh to ask the hard hitting questions, its another day, another farce of our sport. At this point in 2025, what do we think he's actually doing ? From all the UAE Gianetti years, I think he is using a combination of blood bags, micro dosing epo, micro dosing eicar and some new "undetectable" epo like PED that none of the other teams have access to.

 

[Cookster15]

So after yesterday's "not normal" ride by Pogi, and no Walsh to ask the hard hitting questions, its another day, another farce of our sport. At this point in 2025, what do we think he's actually doing ? From all the UAE Gianetti years, I think he is using a combination of blood bags, micro dosing epo, micro dosing eicar and some new "undetectable" epo like PED that none of the other teams have access to.

So why don't other teams speak out? There should at least be murmurs?

I also think any method which can increase delivery of oxygen to the muscles would in theory be detectable in the biological passport - including blood bags, micro dosing epo, micro dosing eicar etc. Remember the passport doesn't detect the substance but its effect on blood markers for oxygen transport. So this comes back to the UCI's motivation and perhaps money to prove in court. IMHO the burden of proof for an adverse finding is set too high by lawyers.

Also, yesterday's ride (66km solo) was not dissimilar to his ride last year (51km solo). But I am glad we are moving away from motor doping to explain it.

 

[aphronesis]

I’m not sure the “other teams” approach holds in the sense that there isn’t much tendency toward dissent in most stabilized contexts
right now. ( Sorry that’s so sanitized, but we are where we are.) And there’s the fishbowl effect: if you’re investing for PR or riding/working pro in the sport are you going to push against that for fractions more?

 

[Abedfo]

So why don't other teams speak out? There should at least be murmurs?

I also think any method which can increase delivery of oxygen to the muscles would in theory be detectable in the biological passport - including blood bags, micro dosing epo, micro dosing eicar etc. Remember the passport doesn't detect the substance but its effect on blood markers for oxygen transport. So this comes back to the UCI's motivation and perhaps money to prove in court. IMHO the burden of proof for an adverse finding is set too high by lawyers.

Also, yesterday's ride (66km solo) was not dissimilar to his ride last year (51km solo). But I am glad we are moving away from motor doping to explain it.

Motor doping isn't detectable by the biological passport 😉.

No one will ever convince me otherwise that the Muur De Huy attack wasn't a motor.

 

[Psycat]

The biggest scam since Florence Griffith in Seoul 1988. At least she screwed up only two disciplines in athletics during one OS. These guys ruin an entire sport for years.

Biggest sport scam is Usain.

 

[ashhutch1997]

What I find absolutely hilarious is these Landis style long distance attacks from Pogacar are all of a sudden the norm. Long distance attacks like yesterday used to be so rare, Froome 2018, Landis 2006 and Chiappucci 1992 are the ones I can remember from the top of my head, but now it's completely the norm.
It's widely reported that the TDF viewing figures were lower this year, and with it going to a pay wall in the UK next year, it'll get much worse. Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Wouldn't bringing down Pog hurt cycling's entire image though? I mean if the GOAT that many get excited about is found to be a total fraud I would think some would just assume the whole sport is a fraud. So I would think the riders would be aware of that and that's why they don't speak up if they know something...

If cycling can survive the Lance Armstrong scandal, it can survive anything, no cyclist will ever come close to how much of a celebrity Lance was.

 

[ashhutch1997]

He is the most dominant cyclist since Merckyx. In these days of social media I would be surprised if he wasn't also by far the most popular cyclist.

Pogačar isn't the draw people think he is, the Tour de France this year had much lower viewing figures than previous years. I doubt many people who aren't cycling fans outside Europe know who Pogačar even is.
I think having a very wealthy state sponsor a team might have something to do with it.

 

[aphronesis]

Yes, social media presence doesn’t always translate to serious interest. But sponsors can gauge that for their needs.

 

[Cookster15]

I doubt many people who aren't cycling fans outside Europe know who Pogačar even is.
I think having a very wealthy state sponsor a team might have something to do with it.

But that’s the thing. Why would a very wealthy state want to dabble in a 2nd tier sport like cycling? They dabble in European soccer which makes sense. But cycling? Also, UAE’s rise only seemed to occur after 2020. At the time of the 2020 TdF the team didn’t seem as powerful as Visma for example.

 

[bah]

But that’s the thing. Why would a very wealthy state want to dabble in a 2nd tier sport like cycling? They dabble in European soccer which makes sense. But cycling? Also, UAE’s rise only seemed to occur after 2020. At the time of the 2020 TdF the team didn’t seem as powerful as Visma for example.

Because they have money to burn.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

But that’s the thing. Why would a very wealthy state want to dabble in a 2nd tier sport like cycling? They dabble in European soccer which makes sense. But cycling? Also, UAE’s rise only seemed to occur after 2020. At the time of the 2020 TdF the team didn’t seem as powerful as Visma for example.

This is what continues to intrigue me, but not just about UAE but some other teams too... while many people (at least in the States) got into baking during the height of Covid I think some labs or nefarious cycling doctors were cooking up something else because the difference was so eyebrow raising to the pre-Covid years. What changed and what did they cook up during the Covid years... I really, really want to know!