Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Netserk]

I'm talking about u23.

There's nothing magical about 19 vs. 18. Same same.

Pogi was a huge talent, easily in the range of what the best rider could have been at that age.

 

[BubbaChuck]

what do you think happened to ayuso.thye said,he was acting as pro since 16,lmao.actin as pro,sure.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Tbh I think Rog was very fortunate to have had the career he's had.

There's riders here who're in their prime and they're shipping GT level gaps in one day races - due to legs, not tactics.

Last year was even more brutal when it comes to gaps. Remco was weaker then but also behind it was even worse than today.

 

[Ripper]

Funny that in 20 seconds of riding, Pog was already 5 up the road from Remco&Comp (and was not gasping for any air). And of course continued to pull away (I think the rate was not quite the same though).

Funny how un-aerodynamic the dude is. The wattage must be just fantastically funny stuff.

 

[Revelation]

what do you think happened to ayuso.thye said,he was acting as pro since 16,lmao.actin as pro,sure.

Bald fraud happened, ruined him (for now). There is a literal world of difference in being coached by him vs. Sola.

 

[BubbaChuck]

numbers dont lie,its not 2005 anymore to tell fairy tales.seixas on juice for some time now.lets be serius.he is french,cant get better protection.only one who doesnot have dips is pogacar,rest are just great responders.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Tha gap to Remco and co was smaller than last year. Maybe not paniagua yet but Teddy is getting there.

 

[Rou]

I'm curious and I need explanations. How come Pogacar's peak level in 2025 is similar to 2024 while Vingegaard's level has decreased?
Vingegaard in 2024 raced out of the Emergency room in the Tour and this year a healthy Jonas was weaker.
My explanation is: the carbon monoxide ban really hit Visma hard while UAE are not as affected by it.

 

[aphronesis]

I'm not going to answer that directly. I think Pat's nationality or politics weren't particularly relevant. It is not clear what his political leaning was or is. It was and is clear that he was open to taking a backhander and being manipulated.
I do not think the UCI presidents that have followed have been a great improvement.

And assessing the beliefs and actions of most people in the context of 30-40 years ago is not the same as an assessment of their status today. Less so Mc Quaid personally.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Pogi was a huge talent, easily in the range of what the best rider could have been at that age.

I think I've only looked at this once, but my conclusion was that Pogacar was pretty good, but not exceptional. Not as exceptional as Evenepoel or van der Poel to name two examples. Since Pogacar is way better than these two now (and not just the world number one), I find it conspicious.

The other reasons for this view are well-known.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm curious and I need explanations. How come Pogacar's peak level in 2025 is similar to 2024 while Vingegaard's level has decreased?
Vingegaard in 2024 raced out of the Emergency room in the Tour and this year a healthy Jonas was weaker.
My explanation is: the carbon monoxide ban really hit Visma hard while UAE are not as affected by it.

It's true. In terms of pure performance Vingo this year was similar to last year but all things considered he was much more impressive last year of course (due to his terrible crash and hampered preparation). This year the preparation was perfect apparently.

But why didn't it hit UAE? Pogacar himself admitted to using it.

 

[kingjr]

Dead sport. They got too good at this and pro-cycling has become Ouroboros.

I've heard today that cycling is apparently a lot more popular than it used to be with folk in their 20s (in Germany, that is, and it's anecdotal, granted).

 

[Ripper]

It's true. In terms of pure performance Vingo this year was similar to last year but all things considered he was much more impressive last year of course (due to his terrible crash and hampered preparation). This year the preparation was perfect apparently.

But why didn't it hit UAE? Pogacar himself admitted to using it.

Well, one possible reason could be because it is near impossible to actually test for. So a possibility could be that Visma discontinued the practice, and UAE shrugged their shoulders but did not care.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Well, one possible reason could be because it is near impossible to actually test for. So a possibility could be that Visma discontinued the practice, and UAE shrugged their shoulders but did not care.

But why would Visma discount the practise if it's impossible to test? They could as well drop any banned PEDs and ride paniagua (but of course they never have).

 

[AlpRaid]

My explanation is: the carbon monoxide ban really hit Visma hard while UAE are not as affected by it.

and exactly how are they enforcing that ban?

just because they say it is banned, they still need to be able to "police" it. not sure anything is done on that, so...

"banning" it is like taking it on faith alone that Gianetti change his doping ways without any reason to do so.

 

[BubbaChuck]

vinge in 2024 was on insane juice,he looked like riis in golden age.havenot seen anythig like that since vva in 2022.57 kilos,lmaoo.i still remember poagacar look,when he saw him at start.bahhhha.

 

[Ripper]

But why would Visma discount the practise if it's impossible to test? They could as well drop any banned PEDs and ride paniagua (but of course they never have).

That's a great question and of course like usual, we don't really have factual answers, only guesses and supposition. Perhaps the UCI notified Visma that they're keeping a closer eye on them? It does seem that the relationship in general between Plugge and all things UCI are tenser than anything we see between the UCI and UAE (there seems to be an awful lot of one palm greasing the other in the latter relationship)

 

[Ripper]

Perhaps there's something to be explored about the business relationships between the UAE, the ASO, and the UCI? The UAE seems to have lucrative partnerships with both

 

[Red Rick]

Tha gap to Remco and co was smaller than last year. Maybe not paniagua yet but Teddy is getting there.

Check the rest of the gaps, then realise he went on a shorter climb than last year, closer to the finish and with easier terrain after the climb.

 

[daking123]

Such weird hand/finger movements doing the attack, what a fraud.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

I'm curious and I need explanations. How come Pogacar's peak level in 2025 is similar to 2024 while Vingegaard's level has decreased?
Vingegaard in 2024 raced out of the Emergency room in the Tour and this year a healthy Jonas was weaker.
My explanation is: the carbon monoxide ban really hit Visma hard while UAE are not as affected by it.

Vingegaard 2025 finished 2nd in TdF and won the Vuelta.
What decreased level are you talking about?

 

[Stablo]

Such weird hand/finger movements doing the attack, what a fraud.

That has been seen before too🤭but i feel sad for people that can't believe in miracles.

 

[solo80k]

Vingegaard 2025 finished 2nd in TdF and won the Vuelta.
What decreased level are you talking about?

I assume Tour 2024 was about breaking climbing records one by one with PdB as the most unreal performance in ages... This was insane.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Check the rest of the gaps, then realise he went on a shorter climb than last year, closer to the finish and with easier terrain after the climb.

I get it, I was joking a bit. I myself predicted a gap of 1'30'' to 2' and was right.

 

[SorelyBoy]

We can speculate to the cows come home. Look back at what has been done before by other dopers. It’s this, it’s that. Whatever. When we stop being either impressed or angry and take the time to analyse Pogacar’s performances across a long period of time, we see certain obvious patterns. We see that even his most talented rivals are not close at all, not really. And that’s not all. He’s light years ahead in pretty much every race type, except for MVdP in a couple of classics. He also maintains his superhuman form across pretty much entire seasons, with just the odd weird ‘bad’ day resulting in maybe only a podium place. Or a weird blip during a GC. Yeah, those *are* odd come to think of it. And then there’s those ITTs where he has recently been seemingly exposed as being normal. Only to roar back up to superhuman levels the next day. The world ITT was very odd indeed. So what’s the pattern? Is it all just random? A supremely talented man simply battling with human frailty. The pattern, as far as I can tell, is a level and consistency of performance that is extraordinary and yet can still malfunction randomly and inexplicably. It’s the randomness of the malfunctions that are the giveaway, happening to a rider who then starts to properly function again the next day or the next big race a few days later. I don’t know about you, but that sounds far more like mechanical things going wrong for Pogacar than anything biological.