Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Peyroteo94]

I live 10 km away from Pogi, and in the bike shops and cafés you meet professionals from various teams almost every day. Some of them speak very badly about Pogi and accuse him of doping.

You just need to visit the right shops and get to know people, and you'll hear a lot.

We all believe you! Give me more of this!

 

[Ripper]

I know this might not be evident at first sight, but this guy seems to be a true believer in Pogacar, so that's indeed the level here, but from some of his fans, not his critics.

I also see some interesting math from true believers. The heat training impact on VO2 appears hyperbole.

 

[aphronesis]

We all believe you! Give me more of this!

I have little to say about Pog, but by high school, if not junior high, there was discussion, and some implied choice of doping in running and cycling circles. The topic didn’t come up strictly because kids were bored and showing off.

You might recall Armstrong etc.?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I live 10 km away from Pogi, and in the bike shops and cafés you meet professionals from various teams almost every day. Some of them speak very badly about Pogi and accuse him of doping.

You just need to visit the right shops and get to know people, and you'll hear a lot.

Do you have any insider info about how many watts does his hidden electric motor produce?

 

[AlpRaid]

I also see some interesting math from true believers. The heat training impact on VO2 appears hyperbole.

So much of the pog defense posters is literally the mirror image of Armstrong defenders of yore.

Remember the weight loss, the high efficiency spinning, the “cancer changed his body”, the “I recon every stage” bs. It goes on and on. And it was ALL a fraud.

As for “coaching” and new training making that much of a difference. lol. And much more lol.

Pog appeals to the same cult as Armstrong did. I expect the same fans think Flo Jo suddenly came out of nowhere to run her 1988 records clean because of switching coaches:

“Before the 1988 track and field season, her best time in the 100-meter sprint was 10.96 seconds (set in 1987). In 1988, she improved that by 0.47 seconds. Her best before 1988 at 200 meters was 21.96 seconds (also set in 1987). In 1988, she improved that by 0.62 seconds to 21.34 seconds, another time that has not been approached. Griffith Joyner attributed the change in her physique to new health programs. Al Joyner replaced Bob Kersee as her coach, and he changed her training program to include more lower-body-strength training exercises such as squats and lunges.”

Just pure hilarity.

 

[AlpRaid]

Meanwhile Remco, by most accounts, rode a similar speed as top times from 2023 (including Pog’s).

However, this year Pog was somehow 1:30 faster on a 20 minute climb.

Freaking hysterical jump in pure watts/kg.

Simply not believable.

 

[Cookster15]

Just pure hilarity.

If it’s hilarity please post facts else it is just your subjective opinion as a Remco fan. A reminder that Remco also beat Pantani’s PdB record by over a minute last year.

This morning I just refuted comments about Pog’s record as a teenager, the lack of results by Pogacar’s competitors as a junior, his visible lack of suffering and even provided a refutation on how a change of coach can make a big difference with an athlete.

Citing hilarity isn’t helpful and suggests avoiding debate. Stick to facts, logic and reason and you won’t need to make such remarks.

None of what I posted says Pogacar isn’t doping. In fact, I am 100% sure he is based upon his numbers and history. But other than motors nobody has provided solid evidence how he has an unfair advantage against fellow pros - including Remco? Even Remco himself seems calm around Pogacar, not a hint suggesting any annoyance he has to compete against someone with an unfair advantage?

The Clinic seems a place where people come to groan when their favourite riders are beaten or, more recently, when one rider is so dominant there isn’t enough entertainment.

But to show I am interested in the truth, perhaps the focus shouldn’t be on Mauro Gianetti but on the much smarter people he brought to UAE? eg Maxtin and the doctors. Gianetti himself was no Dr Michele Ferrari. Also I’d like to know more how, if true, a UAE doctor was allowed to be on the UCI’s (or was it WADA’s?) anti doping panel?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

I also see some interesting math from true believers. The heat training impact on VO2 appears hyperbole.

It's completely outlandish if it's in ml/(kg*min) but it might be in the ballpark in absolute value (ml*min). Can't be bothered to check that out today i confess.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If it’s hilarity please post facts else it is just your subjective opinion as a Remco fan. A reminder that Remco also beat Pantani’s PdB record by over a minute last year.

This morning I just refuted comments about Pog’s record as a teenager, the lack of results by Pogacar’s competitors as a junior, his visible lack of suffering and even provided a refutation on how a change of coach can make a big difference with an athlete.

Citing hilarity isn’t helpful and suggests avoiding debate. Stick to facts, logic and reason and you won’t need to make such remarks.

None of what I posted says Pogacar isn’t doping. In fact, I am 100% sure he is based upon his numbers and history. But other than motors nobody has provided solid evidence how he has an unfair advantage against fellow pros - including Remco? Even Remco himself seems calm around Pogacar, not a hint suggesting any annoyance he has to compete against someone with an unfair advantage?

The Clinic seems a place where people come to groan when their favourite riders are beaten or, more recently, when one rider is so dominant there isn’t enough entertainment.

But to show I am interested in the truth, perhaps the focus shouldn’t be on Mauro Gianetti but on the much smarter people he brought to UAE? eg Maxtin and the doctors. Gianetti himself was no Dr Michele Ferrari. Also I’d like to know more how, if true, a UAE doctor was allowed to be on the UCI’s (or was it WADA’s?) anti doping panel?

This is so spot on!

 

[AlpRaid]

Stick to facts, logic and reason and you won’t need to make such remarks.

Um. My post is full of facts.

What did you not understand about the many comparisons with Flo Jo and Armstrong? What did you not understand by a 1:30 min jump in a 20 min climb? Seriously…tough to debate a cult, I should have known.

Your response and desperate justifications is what is pure hilarity.

Did you really not understand that?

…

Oy.

 

[Cookster15]

Um. My post is full of facts.

Your response and desperate justifications is what is pure hilarity.

Did you really not understand that?

…

Oy.

Not the post I replied to. Your subsequent posts had some facts. I provided a refutation of those earlier, did you miss that? I’m not going to post it again.

This is The Clinic but please refrain from using words like hilarity in this context to counter views you disagree with. Not helpful nor civil.

 

[peterfin]

Meanwhile Remco, by most accounts, rode a similar speed as top times from 2023 (including Pog’s).

However, this year Pog was somehow 1:30 faster on a 20 minute climb.

Freaking hysterical jump in pure watts/kg.

Simply not believable.

It's that acceleration that is so freaking to me. On the Passo Ganda he had a 30 second gap in no time. According to Remco, he starts his attack at a somewhat lower cadance and then just cranks up (no gear change) and keeps that higher rhythm to establish the gap. And when he has the gap, there is no real recovery, he doesn't need to slow down after his mountain sprint. It's all so furious. It's not going in the typical shorter acceleration bursts of the typical climber and slowly building the gap.

 

[AlpRaid]

Not the post I replied to. Your subsequent posts had some facts. I provided a refutation of those earlier, did you miss that? I’m not going to post it again.

This is The Clinic but please refrain from using words like hilarity in this context to counter views you disagree with. Not helpful nor civil.

Why are you and all the die-hards even here if you think he’s clean?

Hmm…

Have your fun in the race threads, in the Pog thread, hell, even bashing Remco in the Remco thread since most of you post there more than anywhere else.

🤡

 

[Ripper]

If it’s hilarity please post facts else it is just your subjective opinion as a Remco fan. A reminder that Remco also beat Pantani’s PdB record by over a minute last year.

This morning I just refuted comments about Pog’s record as a teenager, the lack of results by Pogacar’s competitors as a junior, his visible lack of suffering and even provided a refutation on how a change of coach can make a big difference with an athlete.

Citing hilarity isn’t helpful and suggests avoiding debate. Stick to facts, logic and reason and you won’t need to make such remarks.

None of what I posted says Pogacar isn’t doping. In fact, I am 100% sure he is based upon his numbers and history. But other than motors nobody has provided solid evidence how he has an unfair advantage against fellow pros - including Remco? Even Remco himself seems calm around Pogacar, not a hint suggesting any annoyance he has to compete against someone with an unfair advantage?

The Clinic seems a place where people come to groan when their favourite riders are beaten or, more recently, when one rider is so dominant there isn’t enough entertainment.

But to show I am interested in the truth, perhaps the focus shouldn’t be on Mauro Gianetti but on the much smarter people he brought to UAE? eg Maxtin and the doctors. Gianetti himself was no Dr Michele Ferrari. Also I’d like to know more how, if true, a UAE doctor was allowed to be on the UCI’s (or was it WADA’s?) anti doping panel?

@Cookster15 I hope when you are stating that you refuted "his visible lack of suffering", you are not referring to our exchange? If so, then I think you entirely missed my point.