Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Extinction]

Three weeks full? I’d have to check the likely stats.

Gianetti had it covered, until it slipped through his fingers...But now he has the right industrial backers.

 

[aphronesis]

Gianetti had it covered, until it slipped through his fingers...But now he has the right industrial backers.

Yeah. Skimming what I could find, it’s not clear that he and/or the Cobra had the mental rigor and infrastructure to hold it down back then.

 

[Extinction]

Yeah. Skimming what I could find, it’s not clear that he and/or the Cobra had the mental rigor and infrastructure to hold it down back then.

I think at the time he, Cobra, did and was actually suprised how good he was becoming. He showed it on many levels that season, physically, but, above all, mentality, enhanced as he was by the magical arcanum, a transformative substance that elevates from lead to gold.

 

[aphronesis]

Maybe that’s part of the point. It’s one thing to be that age and drilling it; it’s another to have the professional nous to hold it together. The latter seems missing.

 

[Cookster15]

Riccò was red hot, brazen and full of fight, so yea, if I've gotten what you mean by translate against the field.

I did watch the 2008 Tour closely and you are stretching my memory but absolutely no - Riccò wasn’t considered a genuine GC threat before his team was yanked in that Tour (CERA scandal). As for Riccò being strong out of the Giro, for a few MTFs maybe but no way for the full three weeks. Riccò was no Pantani let alone Pogacar backing up with a grand tour in his legs. Nobody would rank Contador below Riccò at his best. Yet the Giro/Tour double was too much even for AC. To suggest Riccò might have challenged for the GC win in the 2008 Tour is too much and rather insulting to Carlos, the Schleck brothers and Cadel.

I note Riccò was 2’29” down on Evans in yellow when he was yanked before stage 12. Didn’t set the world on fire on Hautacam the day before either. Sure Gianetti had Piepoli and Cobo take that stage but if Riccò was a true wonderboy it would be him allowed in that attack rather than those two.

Riccò seemed hyped to me, a 57Kg pure climber but hopeless in TT (unless it was a MTT). I suggest that's why Riccò wasn't competing for the win on Hautacam that day rather than Piepoli and Cobo. Gianetti’s prowess came later. Gianetti's CERA attempt was also foiled at that Tour.

I say if Gianetti is a maestro with that extra €10mil budget to spend it could be in corruption, but not sports science. IMO, testers looking the other way is the only credible theory put forward in this entire thread which might explain how Pogacar might have an unfair advantage against other current day dopers.

a transformative substance that elevates from lead to gold.

A substance? Why would Gianetti take that risk? ANY substance runs the risk of detection by the passport - including don't forget retrospective testing. So I think the only realistic way a transformative substance could make a modern day rival to Merckyx is via UCI collusion.

 

[Red Rick]

UAE literally have a team doctor on the UCI medical board. They probably know best what risks to avoid and what risks to push.

 

[aphronesis]

I did watch the 2008 Tour closely and you are stretching my memory but absolutely no - Riccò wasn’t considered a genuine GC threat before his team was yanked in that Tour (CERA scandal). As for Riccò being strong out of the Giro, for a few MTFs maybe but no way for the full three weeks. Riccò was no Pantani let alone Pogacar backing up with a grand tour in his legs. Nobody would rank Contador below Riccò at his best. Yet the Giro/Tour double was too much even for AC. To suggest Riccò might have challenged for the GC win in the 2008 Tour is too much and rather insulting to Carlos, the Schleck brothers and Cadel.

I note Riccò was 2’29” down on Evans in yellow when he was yanked before stage 12. Didn’t set the world on fire on Hautacam the day before either. Sure Gianetti had Piepoli and Cobo take that stage but if Riccò was a true wonderboy it would be him allowed in that attack rather than those two.

Riccò seemed hyped to me, a 57Kg pure climber but hopeless in TT (unless it was a MTT). I suggest that's why Riccò wasn't competing for the win on Hautacam that day rather than Piepoli and Cobo. Gianetti’s prowess came later. Gianetti's CERA attempt was also foiled at that Tour.

I say if Gianetti is a maestro with that extra €10mil budget to spend it could be in corruption, but not sports science. IMO, testers looking the other way is the only credible theory put forward in this entire thread which might explain how Pogacar might have an unfair advantage against other current day dopers.



A substance? Why would Gianetti take that risk? ANY substance runs the risk of detection by the passport - including don't forget retrospective testing. So I think the only realistic way a transformative substance could make a modern day rival to Merckyx is via UCI collusion.

My sense is (and I posted it) is that whatever Riis brought was lost when he and Contador separated.

 

[Extinction]

I did watch the 2008 Tour closely and you are stretching my memory but absolutely no - Riccò wasn’t considered a genuine GC threat before his team was yanked in that Tour (CERA scandal). As for Riccò being strong out of the Giro, for a few MTFs maybe but no way for the full three weeks. Riccò was no Pantani let alone Pogacar backing up with a grand tour in his legs. Nobody would rank Contador below Riccò at his best. Yet the Giro/Tour double was too much even for AC. To suggest Riccò might have challenged for the GC win in the 2008 Tour is too much and rather insulting to Carlos, the Schleck brothers and Cadel.

I note Riccò was 2’29” down on Evans in yellow when he was yanked before stage 12. Didn’t set the world on fire on Hautacam the day before either. Sure Gianetti had Piepoli and Cobo take that stage but if Riccò was a true wonderboy it would be him allowed in that attack rather than those two.

Riccò seemed hyped to me, a 57Kg pure climber but hopeless in TT (unless it was a MTT). I suggest that's why Riccò wasn't competing for the win on Hautacam that day rather than Piepoli and Cobo. Gianetti’s prowess came later. Gianetti's CERA attempt was also foiled at that Tour.

I say if Gianetti is a maestro with that extra €10mil budget to spend it could be in corruption, but not sports science. IMO, testers looking the other way is the only credible theory put forward in this entire thread which might explain how Pogacar might have an unfair advantage against other current day dopers.



A substance? Why would Gianetti take that risk? ANY substance runs the risk of detection by the passport - including don't forget retrospective testing. So I think the only realistic way a transformative substance could make a modern day rival to Merckyx is via UCI collusion.

You obviously were'nt watching in 2008. Don't miss the sprints next year, you might lose something.

 

[Extinction]

My sense is (and I posted it) is that whatever Riis brought was lost when he and Contador separated.

Aye, matey, but let's see what happens if Gianetti goes down. Somehow, however, with UAE petrol dollars, me thinks that won't happen. 🍿

 

[Cookster15]

My sense is (and I posted it) is that whatever Riis brought was lost when he and Contador separated.

What I recall was Contador lost some power but became a more attacking rider after he returned from his ban. Not sure if that coincided with losing Riis? Contador 2009 TdF was the best ever seen - better than 2011 Giro. In 2009 AC had to overcome his own team who were supporting Lance. He also beat Cancellara at Annecy.

But to suggest Ricco could ever rival AC in a fair fight is far fetched IMO.

 

[Cookster15]

UAE literally have a team doctor on the UCI medical board. They probably know best what risks to avoid and what risks to push.

And I really don’t know how this is allowed? If I am Red Bull or Visma, not to mention those teams’ sponsors I would be furious and demanding an explanation - at least behind closed doors.

Even if nothing untoward is going on the optics for the UCI are appalling.

 

[Unchained]

Aye, matey, but let's see what happens if Gianetti goes down. Somehow, however, with UAE petrol dollars, me thinks that won't happen. 🍿

I enjoy pirate voice posts