Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[E_F_]

Very bad faith take imo. Who finished 3rd and 4th again? The two most popular riders in which country?

You're literally the one trying to make a bad faith argument aimed at random Belgians rather than any of the members here, you're mocking in this thread. Which Belgian rider, did he beat in Fleche? The Belgians were mad, that Remco came 3rd not 2nd at the Tour? If my rebuttal seems bad faith, that's because your ad hominem was bad faith!

 

[jotafap]

We know. Well I know, anyway... It's still 1) an expression and 2) an expression.

 

[E_F_]

Expressions famously carry no meaning. That's why we call them expressions. Because they don't express anything!

 

[jotafap]

Expressions famously carry no meaning. That's why we call them expressions. Because they don't express anything!

Chagpt interpretation of you words: "Short answer: no, that statement doesn’t really make sense."

 

[Red Rick]

Riders words have meaning. And they very often communicate in such not-so-subtle ways to convey their thoughts.

They could choose their words more carefully, but chose not to

 

[SorelyBoy]

Florian Senechal talks about the recent Flanders race -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...-stunned-by-world-champions-speed-in-flanders
(original article in French at https://www.eurosport.fr/cyclisme/t...e-navais-jamais-vu-ca_vid60067207/video.shtml )

Two references to motorbikes in the same quote. He knows what he’s doing, no doubt. He isn’t even being subtle.

 

[E_F_]

Chagpt interpretation of you words: "Short answer: no, that statement doesn’t really make sense."

That was the point, my friend.

 

[noob]

Two references to motorbikes in the same quote. He knows what he’s doing, no doubt. He isn’t even being subtle.

Honestly I'm not sure he's knowingly hints at motors, but the fact that he did it twice makes it a bit more likely.

 

[E_F_]

Riders words have meaning. And they very often communicate in such not-so-subtle ways to convey their thoughts.

They could choose their words more carefully, but chose not to

In the first case it's not even an expression, he literally says that he legit thought Pogacar was a moto...

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Two references to motorbikes in the same quote. He knows what he’s doing, no doubt. He isn’t even being subtle.

Or he simply references his initial impression twice. He mistook him for a Motorbike, so that is what he compares him to. Maybe simply because as a rider, you are only used to being overtaken by a Motorbike in a situation when you and others are going all out. This needn't be a motor doping reference at all, but it of course appears as one when looks with the expectation to find such references, just like a fast moving object might appear to be a motorbike to a rider.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Honestly I'm not sure he's knowingly hints at motors, but the fact that he did it twice makes it a bit more likely.

Things can also sound very different in writing than when they are spoken. Sénéchal is clearly no longer at the level he once was, but he did have a leader who was able to follow the so called motorbike, so Pogačar wasn't riding faster than what other people were able to do before later in the race.

I will not rule out motors, by the way, but people seem to be grasping at even the shortest straws, despite the fact that the traditional forms of doping still sound like way more plausible explanations.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Things can also sound very different in writing than when they are spoken. Sénéchal is clearly no longer at the level he once was, but he did have a leader who was able to follow the so called motorbike, so Pogačar wasn't riding faster than what other people were able to do before later in the race.

I will not rule out motors, by the way, but people seem to be grasping at even the shortest straws, despite the fact that the traditional forms of doping still sound like way more plausible explanations.

Read it again and it’s even more telling. He deliberately contextualises his observations. First of all he tells us that the peloton is going flat out, fast. Then he references two top strong riders in Laporte and Remco. And he says they’re riding very well but not moving up, not advancing, again to emphasise the speed of the peloton. Then he says Pogacar comes past everyone, the peloton, like he is on a motorbike. It’s so startling that Senechal says he was about to shout at the rider for such dangerous riding. But that’s not all. He gives crucial additional information by saying that Pogacar was riding in the wind. In other words, not that Pogacar was merely slaloming through a fast moving peloton, which would be impressive enough, rather he was riding on the outside and past them like they weren’t moving without any aero protection, into the wind. Senechal is deliberately and evocatively describing what he saw in order to communicate and elucidate the extraordinary nature of it, while twice dropping in comparisons to someone riding past on a motorbike.

 

[E_F_]

Read it again and it’s even more telling. He deliberately contextualises his observations. First of all he tells us that the peloton is going flat out, fast. Then he references two top strong riders in Laporte and Remco. And he says they’re riding very well but not moving up, not advancing, again to emphasise the speed of the peloton. Then he says Pogacar comes past everyone, the peloton, like he is on a motorbike. It’s so startling that Senechal says he was about to shout at the rider for such dangerous riding. But that’s not all. He gives crucial additional information by saying that Pogacar was riding in the wind. In other words, not that Pogacar was merely slaloming through a fast moving peloton, which would be impressive enough, rather he was riding on the outside and past them like they weren’t moving without any aero protection, into the wind. Senechal is deliberately and evocatively describing what he saw in order to communicate and elucidate the extraordinary nature of it, while twice dropping in comparisons to someone riding past on a motorbike.

Yes, I certainly read the statement as a description of an extraordinary experience. And as such I find it to be evidence of something being very off with Pogacar. Even though I personally think he probably didn't intend to insinuate motor doping.

 

[hrotha]

I think riders aren't making clever allusions to motors in front of the media, I think motorbikes have always been used as the obvious go-to hyperbole for riders who go really fast on a bike for literally any reason