Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Krzysztof_O]

And since last Sunday, I've become a bit more enthusiastic again.

Cause other guys have better motors now?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Illmaestro's Pogacar Moto thread exists. Maybe we should disentangle the debates about substance and mechanical doping.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I've been following this here for a while, and the reason is simple: I am 100% convinced that Pogacar is using mechanical doping. It is unbelievable that this is simply possible, and we are seeing all kinds of indirect evidence. I stopped watching after the La Flèche Wallonne 2025, except for the Tour. And since last Sunday, I've become a bit more enthusiastic again. The 2025 La Flèche Wallonne, where, as always, he first looks down before suddenly dropping everyone out of nowhere.

Are you 100% convinced that Pogacar alone is doing it, or do you think there is generally mechanical doping in the Peloton?

 

[SorelyBoy]

Illmaestro's Pogacar Moto thread exists. Maybe we should disentangle the debates about substance and mechanical doping.

Maybe, although doping is doping. It's rider specific, no? I don't think there's any difference morally (which is why I think people using one banned method wouldn't hesitate to use any other banned methods if it would give them an advantage). Happy to go along with whatever people think though.

 

[jotafap]

Maybe, although doping is doping. It's rider specific, no? I don't think there's any difference morally (which is why I think people using one banned method wouldn't hesitate to use any other banned methods if it would give them an advantage). Happy to go along with whatever people think though.

There's an insane difference though.
With doping, you can more or less safely assume that IF some riders are doing it, then most of the peloton probably is too, it would make the battlefield somewhat "even".
With a motor, that WOULD be next-level cheating against your competitors, and you're no longer pedalling using only your legs, you are no longer doing real cycling.

It's a huge difference, and I don't think any top rider would do it — even lack of moral have limits.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I've been following this here for a while, and the reason is simple: I am 100% convinced that Pogacar is using mechanical doping. It is unbelievable that this is simply possible, and we are seeing all kinds of indirect evidence. I stopped watching after the La Flèche Wallonne 2025, except for the Tour. And since last Sunday, I've become a bit more enthusiastic again. The 2025 La Flèche Wallonne, where, as always, he first looks down before suddenly dropping everyone out of nowhere.

Yeah, looking down in the same way as he did when he put the power down against Van Aert on Sunday. He does do it, no doubt. The question is whether its just a psychological tick he has when he's attacking, or about to attack, or is it more than that? Is he checking to make sure the motor is kicking in? Hard to know, except he usually does sail off into the distance with minimal visible effort - looks bloody weird to me. I think Sunday had him up against a rider far more suited to the course (in normal times) who was 'on one' and who *just* about was able to hold on with a monumental effort (visible for all to see how much Van Aert was straining in comparison to Pogacar at times). Also, Pogacar did have to exert more energy than maybe he would have wanted to after those mechanicals or punctures, so wherever the power was coming from the batteries were running low so to speak. Still, that he lost would have been a bitter pill to swallow, as the post race comments revealed. UAE and Pogacar have reached a level of hubris where they think they should be allowed to win all the races the compete in. They are not half as popular as some of his fan boys would have you believe.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Maybe, although doping is doping. It's rider specific, no? I don't think there's any difference morally (which is why I think people using one banned method wouldn't hesitate to use any other banned methods if it would give them an advantage). Happy to go along with whatever people think though.

It's not a suggestion on moral grounds, but to have more focussed debates.

 

[SorelyBoy]

There's an insane difference though.
With doping, you can more or less safely assume that IF some riders are doing it, then most of the peloton probably is too, it would make the battlefield somewhat "even".
With a motor, that WOULD be next-level cheating against your competitors, and you're no longer pedalling using only your legs, you longer doing real cycling.

It's a huge difference, and I don't think any top rider would do it — even lack of moral have limits.

Maybe, but it's not a universal rule that applies to everyone. People generally work on a spectrum of what they can morally reconcile with their own consciences and riders and team directors are no different. I think at the extreme end, some people have no limits. Back in the day, riders used to take the train because they thought they could get away with it. Lance Armstrong tried to destroy peoples lives because he wanted to win so much and keep all that filthy lucre. There were rumours back then that he was using motors as well, and I wouldn't have been in the least surprised if he had been. So, no I don't think the line is that big a one to cross for people who are already so morally compromised they probably just tell themselves the old lie that everyone is 'at it', and ultimately they just don't care anyway. They are utterly cynical. And I do think there are people in the sport today, including riders, who do use motors. Probably not many. Maybe not all the time. However, I am highly suspect of Mr Pogacar and UAE because of the personalities involved AND the ludicrous too good to be true performances that simply can't be explained by advanced biological doping programmes. He's playing cycling on cheat mode and it shows.

 

[jotafap]

Maybe not all the time. However, I am highly suspect of Mr Pogacar and UAE because of the personalities involved AND the ludicrous too good to be true performances that simply can't be explained by advanced biological doping programmes. He's playing cycling on cheat mode and it shows.

Those are literally all your interpretations and perceptions of reality. Please don’t state them as facts. It doesn’t show because you simply don’t know, just like I don’t.

Anyway, i gotta stop myself from coming to the clinic, it's my fault... All of this is just a daily recycling of what has already been said (by big big biased haters), and it's nothing more than a discussion built on mirages.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Those are literally all your interpretations and perceptions of reality. Please don’t state them as facts. It doesn’t show because you simply don’t know, just like I don’t.

Anyway, i gotta stop myself from coming to the clinic, it's my fault... All of this is just a daily recycling of what has already been said (by big big biased haters), and it's nothing more than a discussion built on mirages.

It's an opinion. That's what this forum is about, a safe space to give opinions, not have people come here and try to shut down such conversations. However, I do think it is very valuable and better if people express rational opinions that are backed up by evidence and reasoning. I'm open to hearing alternative views, but it has to be more than just 'he's just the greatest and you're saying all these thing because you don't like him.' I used to be like that, waaay back. I used to believe Lance was the greatest cyclist ever. I would defend him to the hilt. Then I got my eyes opened and I couldn't deny it. I was never going to be taken for a fool ever again. If it looks too good to be true, it usually is. That's not being cynical, it's being realistic. And remember, every one who cheats is taking away someone else's glory, taking away their livelihoods. It's an important topic that we cannot ignore because it is too painful to contemplate.

 

[E_F_]

If Pogacar is motordoping, I'm sure others are too. Vingegaard's TT comes to mind.

Pogacar being the star rider who responds the best and has the most sophisticated doping, and motor, would make sense considering his dominance of the overall sport. I'd never argue that a potential motor is the be all, end all. Rather just an extra kick to the groin of the cycling world. For gratuitous emphasis.