Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Glorious]

How is it possible that Pogacar is performing ten times worse here than, for example, in the Tour... mechanical doping. He looks 100 times more tired than after a tough Tour stage or a Monument. Ridiculous.

 

[burning]

How is it possible that Pogacar is performing ten times worse here than, for example, in the Tour... mechanical doping. He looks 100 times more tired than after a tough Tour stage or a Monument. Ridiculous.

So he was using a motor 3 days ago and now he doesnt? Is it because of Swiss people being experts of motor detection?

The man rode LBL at an insane pace 3 days ago and still rinses the other guys in a sprint, and the climbing speed looks very good on a first glance, he is perfectly fine

 

[Ulle97]

Well, probably EPO, blood transfusions and testosterone for starters, there's still quite a bit of wiggle room to get away with it. On top of that? Synthetic hemoglobin or other novel blood manipulations techniques (like siRNA targeting EGLN/PHD), HGH/IGF-1,... i could go on and on.

Don't forget the motors!!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In Switzerland you have to pay for a calendar year to use a motor vehicle on motorways, so obviously UAE didn't want to do that when he's only going to be there for less than two weeks this season.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

On these long efforts, Pogačar‘s engine, like the new F1 cars, engages super-clipping to recover power. He was just running the MGU-K in reverse. Let‘s hope the current F1 rule tweaks help the others catch up.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In Switzerland you have to pay for a calendar year to use a motor vehicle on motorways, so obviously UAE didn't want to do that when he's only going to be there for less than two weeks this season.

So wheelbarrow from Shimano today?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

So wheelbarrow from Shimano today?

Yeah, but today it didn't cost him the win like it did in Roubaix. It's a good bike for sprinting apparently. Uijtdebroeks should take note.

 

[jotafap]

How is it possible that Pogacar is performing ten times worse here than, for example, in the Tour... mechanical doping. He looks 100 times more tired than after a tough Tour stage or a Monument. Ridiculous.

I thought this was self-explanatory… I guess not...

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

I don't know much about the Kreuziger case - is there a link to the details such as the blood values & most importantly the Off-scores? I'm assuming his Off-scores didn't meet the 99.99% specificity level that warrants a ban (I believe the threshold is it has to be less than 1 in 10,000 chance of being undoped).

On Horner, his Off-scores didn't come close enough for the 99.99% specificity level (that's probably why he self-published his blood values. Lol).

On Cobo, about a year ago or so I posted a link on the PDF of his CAS hearing that gave all the details of the case including his blood values & Off-scores. The anti-doping experts that handled his case explain why the long delay. The Off-scores from the around of the time of & during the Vuelta were high enough for a sanction. The details of the delay is long & complicated (if you've got the time & some good tea/coffee to drink, it's an interesting read).

And are you saying the CIR test for testosterone is not routinely used? I would think the top riders from the GC, classics & especially the sprinters would be subjected to routine CIR testing? That's how they busted Justin Gatlin - a U.S. world-class 100m/200m T&F sprinter & Olympic medalist. WADA didn't wait for any suspicious T/E ratios - they hit him head on with CIR testing. And his excuse was that his masseur must have used Androgel during his rub downs. LOL

And what do think about the Sample Retention and Further Analysis (SFA) which allows samples to be stored for up to 10 years for future testing? (subject to retesting as new technology becomes available). It's already been used in retesting samples years later from past Olympic events where they've nailed numerous athletes with positive findings. Here's an interesting study on SFA's effect as a deterrent in doping:

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If Pogacar is biologically doping, I'm sure this would have to rest heavily on his mind?

The kreuziger case was a weird one, tinkoff suspended him after an UCI inquiry on his blood values, he explained himself by saying that the cause was his thyroid medication (the fact that you don't even need a TUE to use thyroid hormone is a problem into itself imho), he was then cleared by the Czech olympic committee. WADA and the UCI then appealed to CAS in late 2014 only to drop it and let him skate by june 2015

If you've got a link about the Cobo case i would be interested yes, thank you.

Afaik the isotope ratio test isn't routinely used no, it's quite expensive (near à thousand € apiece), not every lab has the necessary equipment, there have been problem at the labs with it in the past (for instance the south african wada accredited lab was prohibited from using it during six months from september 2023).
Gatlin was a prime target for it because the other athletes coached by trevor graham we're popping positives like there was no tomorrow. Also Gatlin didn't blame his masseur, Graham did.

Operation Aderlass - examples of riders who were not caught by the passport:

Stefan Denifl - confessed to blood doping. No passport violation throughout his career.

Georg Preidler - admitted blood doping. No passport violation throughout his career.

Danilo Hondo - admitted to blood doping in (at least) 2011. No passport violation throughout his career.

Alessandro Petacchi - two-year ban. No passport violation throughout his career.

Kristijan Koren - two-year ban. No passport violation throughout his career.

Kristijan Đurasek - four-year ban. No passport violation throughout his career.

Borut Božič - two-year ban. No passport violation throughout his career.

Pirmin Lang - admitted blood doping. No passport violation throughout his career.

Björn Thurau - long ban. No passport violation throughout his career.


Conclusion - blood doping is still relevant. Even 'lesser' riders can use transfusions without getting caught.

Thank you, i was going to post more or less the same thing but you beat me to it.

Don't forget the motors!!

Meh i don't know, i've seen some things that raised my eyebrows, but looks can be deceiving, as far as motors go i'm an agnostic.

 

[Red Rick]

How is it possible that Pogacar is performing ten times worse here than, for example, in the Tour... mechanical doping. He looks 100 times more tired than after a tough Tour stage or a Monument. Ridiculous.

I'm not gonna say motors, but I've always thought that whatever it is they were on is short acting, and taking the day before or the morning of.

I've based it on the miraculous turnarounds and sometimes crazy results in stages where riders probably didn't expect to need to maximize their dose.

 

[how yes no?]

I'm not gonna say motors, but I've always thought that whatever it is they were on is short acting, and taking the day before or the morning of.

I've based it on the miraculous turnarounds and sometimes crazy results in stages where riders probably didn't expect to need to maximize their dose.

Do you think he is using more or less the same thing since joining UAE?
How do we explain the jumps from 2022 - 23, then to 24 and 25 (and 26?)?
Derivates/advancements of basicly same approach/substance?
If it's short acting, how can it help with recovery presumably needed to be in top shape year round? (or is this a magic stuff that makes you in top form regardless or training and other physiology stuff?)