TDF 2011 Lineup Announced // No Geox - Will Menchov leave? Will Geox fold?

[Barrus]

they cant justify snubbing a strong geox team (cobo, menchov,sastre) and invite a woefully sh*t BMC team last year - utter disgrace

Well, if you take into account the world champions jersey on a possible contender for the overall victory and the fact that there were less French times that needed an invite to attend the tour, combined with a bit of power play against the UCI for not including more french teams in the protour, yes, yes they can justify it on quite good grounds actually.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I merged the two threads into one as both OPs were nigh identical.

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, if you take into account the world champions jersey on a possible contender for the overall victory and the fact that there were less French times that needed an invite to attend the tour, combined with a bit of power play against the UCI for not including more french teams in the protour, yes, yes they can justify it on quite good grounds actually.

No, crappy French teams shouldn't be awarded for having a bad organisation.

 

[patrick767]

Well, if you take into account the world champions jersey on a possible contender for the overall victory and the fact that there were less French times that needed an invite to attend the tour, combined with a bit of power play against the UCI for not including more french teams in the protour, yes, yes they can justify it on quite good grounds actually.

They would have more French teams on the Protour if they performed better. It's that simple. Boo hoo. The French teams weren't good enough.

To get their pathetic, petty revenge, the Tour organizers have decided to snub a very strong team that blows away the four French national teams they've invited. Despicable. The ASO has made it clear that they are more interested in promoting "French cycling" than in having a high caliber TdF. They're an embarrassment.

I look forward to the Giro and the Vuelta being better races. Screw the ASO.

 

[patrick767]

How ridiculous. There's no way they can justify that decision. 4 out of 4 wild cards given to French teams? BS

Sure they can. They're FRENCH teams. That's all that matters to the ASO.

 

[Barrus]

They would have more French teams on the Protour if they performed better. It's that simple. Boo hoo. The French teams weren't good enough.

To get their pathetic, petty revenge, the Tour organizers have decided to snub a very strong team that blows away the four French national teams they've invited. Despicable. The ASO has made it clear that they are more interested in promoting "French cycling" than in having a high caliber TdF. They're an embarrassment.

I look forward to the Giro and the Vuelta being better races. Screw the ASO.

In my mind this is one of the better decision the ASo have made, in recent years too often did they bent over backwards for big budget teams almost buying their way into the tour. Their decision to promote french cycling no matter how petty the reasoning behind it it, is a decision which I can find myself in

 

[Wallace]

Is this how the sport tells Gianetti that he isn't welcome here any more? That's the only justification for the exclusion that would make sense to me.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

Something about GEOX just doesn't seem right. There have been too many "odd" things happening around this team. Rumors of Sastre leaving, the whole Gianetti power struggle, not to mention this team doesn't even have a uniform yet.

I wonder what the odds are on the team presentation being "pushed back".

 

[Michielveedeebee]

GEOX is Italian right? so let's hope they get into the Giro, if not I really fear for it's existence

 

[ergmonkey]

Time for Menchov and Andrei Tchmil to kiss and make up.

With nationalistic outfits like Sky in full-swing and GreenEdge on the way, the Russian Cycling Project needs to finally include Russia's best TdF hope.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nobright side to it. Both are on my cq team.

Mine too.

How ridiculous. There's no way they can justify that decision. 4 out of 4 wild cards given to French teams? BS

Why not? It's the Tour de France. It owes its existence to French money, French sponsors, French teams, French gendarmes, French support staff. It's a global thing, but ultimately we were all going to watch it whether Sastre is racing or whether Jérôme Coppel is racing.

as ive said before lets invite a shocking BMC team to 2010 tour and snub a strong geox team this year - utter, utter disgrace

Utter disgrace? Sorry but I think you're going way too far. The ASO are simply trying to reclaim the Tour de France for France. That they have changed their standard from last year is like when they announced the 2010 route - they acknowledged that the previous year's idea didn't work. Last year they invited BMC knowing that Evans was all they had to offer; Evans got hurt and was tired from the Giro, and all of a sudden they had a passenger team (three, actually, since Footon and Milram were nondescript). So they decided to change things up. Sure, I think Geox would have done better than BMC, but I'm not the one making the decision.

They would have more French teams on the Protour if they performed better. It's that simple. Boo hoo. The French teams weren't good enough.

To get their pathetic, petty revenge, the Tour organizers have decided to snub a very strong team that blows away the four French national teams they've invited. Despicable. The ASO has made it clear that they are more interested in promoting "French cycling" than in having a high caliber TdF. They're an embarrassment.

I look forward to the Giro and the Vuelta being better races. Screw the ASO.

Whether Saur, Geox, Androni or the A-Team rode the Tour is irrelevant - the Giro and the Vuelta will be better races. They almost always are. There's too much riding on the Tour for too many people, so teams ride to defend a top 10 place rather than risk it on trying to win. See Garmin going to the front and setting the pace to bring back the break on stage 16 last year because Rubén Plaza and Chris Horner were threatening Hesjedal's 10th place. 10th!

The whole point of the wildcards is to give the organisers some freedom to choose the teams who race. 18 teams are fixed - that's over 80% of the race roster. You're giving the people who have to go to all the organisational hassle less than 20% of the say in what their spectacle will contain. No wonder they act in their own interests. They make their coin on French money, French sponsors, French fans. Did you see the early days of the 2008 Tour with David LeLay's name all over the roads? You need to sate the fans. And the fans are French, and a lot of them are casual fans, interested bystanders and patriotic Frenchmen who want to have French names to cheer for, rather than watch 200 foreigners ride by. And since most of the French teams need an invite to go to the race, they're always going to take up the bulk of the wildcards, because without French names and French sponsors and French gendarmes and French départements and French councils, the race wouldn't exist, so they need to give France something in return.

GEOX is Italian right? so let's hope they get into the Giro, if not I really fear for it's existence

Spanish.

 

[ergmonkey]

Spanish.

I think the earlier poster meant to ask whether Geox the corporation (not Geox the registered cycling team) is Italian. And, yes, that poster was one-hundred percent correct. Geox is an Italian shoemaker. Thus, being excluded from the Giro would make for a VERY unhappy sponsor--perhaps so unhappy as to want to back-out of the sponsorship entirely.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think the earlier poster meant to ask whether Geox the corporation (not Geox the registered cycling team) is Italian.

Ah, my mistake, sorry.

 

[Kazistuta]

The whole point of the wildcards is to give the organisers some freedom to choose the teams who race. 18 teams are fixed - that's over 80% of the race roster. You're giving the people who have to go to all the organisational hassle less than 20% of the say in what their spectacle will contain. No wonder they act in their own interests. They make their coin on French money, French sponsors, French fans. Did you see the early days of the 2008 Tour with David LeLay's name all over the roads? You need to sate the fans. And the fans are French, and a lot of them are casual fans, interested bystanders and patriotic Frenchmen who want to have French names to cheer for, rather than watch 200 foreigners ride by. And since most of the French teams need an invite to go to the race, they're always going to take up the bulk of the wildcards, because without French names and French sponsors and French gendarmes and French départements and French councils, the race wouldn't exist, so they need to give France something in return.

Spanish.

This

TRU DAT

 

[Francois the Postman]

I had a problem when ASO was pretending that wild cards were handed out on (expected/earned) merit over the last couple of years. I have no real problems when they claim they are handing our wild cards for regional considerations.

I welcome national races that have a national tint far more than national races that have an almost uniformly global field. And it's kinda unfair to French teams that small teams across the world have a decent shot at competing at their national level, but the smaller French teams have the whole world competing for their Wild Cards for "their" race.

Wild Cards to local teams, even if it is "our" Crown Jewel, c'est la vie!

All 4 however?

I am a bit surprised that an organizer feels it doesn't add something seriously lacking to the upcoming race by inviting last year's number 3 and multiple GT winner (and another ex-winner as an added bonus) when the #1 from last year is likely to sit one out.

I am delighted to see the Vuelta and Giro shoot up on the target list of both Menchov and Sastre though. It looks like I am the real winner here. The race that I find so-so loses out, the two that entertain me far more just got more interesting.

And it looks like Sastre finally has been forced to turn his racing-them-all GT attitude into a let's-concentrate-on-this-one programme. I thought he was spreading himself too wide for his (my?) own good. A bit late in the day, but I hope a bit of additional rest will make up for some of the consequences of age.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

This whole "French teams stink" crap has to stop. It's utterly silly. Who doesn't stink? The Spanish teams? The same ones full of banned riders? Italian teams like Liquigas with DiLuca and now Basso?

Saunier Duval with their awesome climbers rocking the Giro, Tour, and Fuentes' medicine cabinets?

Look at who beats these French teams day in and day out. Want to learn more about these great teams' riders?
Go visit the clinic.

I think we need a new definition of "stink" other than "getting routinely worked over by dopers".

 

[orbis_25]

While at first I was mightily surprised that Geox was left out (didn't Prudhomme say a while back that Sastre would always be welcome at Le Tour?), it makes sense when you compare this year with the past.

In 2010, there was no need for ASO to use up wildcards on French teams as 4 were automatically selected. This year, only one of those teams made the cut - AG2R. Obviously ASO wants French teams, just like RCS wants Italian teams. They used up 3 of the wildcards on major French teams that have formed the backbone of French cycling over the last decade, namely Cofidis, FDJ, and Europcar. Le Tour without them is inconceivable, not because they're packed with amazing talent but because they're so important to French cycling. This left ASO with one wildcard, and they chose Saur. Geox maybe should've been chosen over them, but when you throw Gianetti's recent performances at the race (riders thrown out in 2009, non-existent last year) then... It's a French race, obviously they want French teams to compete. I'm not overly fussed either way, because the Giro is way better!

In response to an earlier comment, I think it's rather simplistic to claim that French teams "stink" because everyone else dopes. This claim has been repeatedly made by the French, but it seems more of an excuse than a reason. This is straying dangerously close to Clinic material, but there are riders out there generally considered clean who are far superior to any current French rider. If so, then you can be successful without doping and it follows the French should also be able to produce natural talent. They haven't done so to the same level, and so can't suck because they don't dope, there must be some other reason. Furthermore, are you really going to claim that every French rider is clean? Probabilities alone dictate that some can't be. I am by no means claiming that there are no good French riders, there are (like the Feillu brothers, Moncoutié...). Rather, I'm saying French teams in general are weaker than their foreign counterparts and there must be a reason other than doping for this. To claim that French teams are weaker purely because of there being two speeds is weak.

I hope this doesn't turn into a discussion about doping.

 

[ansimi]

I support race organizers being able to use their wildcards as they see fit and I completely understand wanting the French teams there. No Menchov will make the GC at TDF less interesting but the GC is usually the least interesting part of the race so hopefully we'll see those French teams opening up the race and going for lots of stages.

Geox (the company) has every reason to be upset. That's an excellent sponsor for cycling and they will not be getting their money's worth this season. With the invites they're not getting, can they even earn the points they would need for a license upgrade next year? What's bad for sponsorship is bad for the sport too.

I'm sure Menchov and Sastre are making big money there. I think Sastre will stick it out and the chaos in the team organization means lots of opportunities for him to explore other roles and think about what he might want to do when he retires. I do think Menchov's agent will be looking at other options but he'd probably need to take a huge pay cut to go to another team.

When do the Giro invites go out? Sastre sounds pretty sure of that one but I wouldn't think it's a sure thing.

 

[rzombie1988]

I really think they ought to just have more spots open. Once it hits the mountains it won't matter anyway as no more than a handful could possibly keep up. The teams/racers that can't hang will show it.

I don't think there's an explanation for no French cyclists being on top right now. It just is what it is. There's tons of countries out there with no GT contenders though. The best way to change that is to keep giving young hungry guys chances to shine and wait for one of them to do so.

 

[ergmonkey]

I really think they ought to just have more spots open. Once it hits the mountains it won't matter anyway as no more than a handful could possibly keep up.

This would mean even more sprint crashes in the first week--in addition to complicating all of the other logistics.

 

[adamski101]

I really think they ought to just have more spots open. Once it hits the mountains it won't matter anyway as no more than a handful could possibly keep up. The teams/racers that can't hang will show it.

I don't think there's an explanation for no French cyclists being on top right now. It just is what it is. There's tons of countries out there with no GT contenders though. The best way to change that is to keep giving young hungry guys chances to shine and wait for one of them to do so.

22 teams is more than enough. up until last year it had been 20 for quite number of years. 198 starters is probably the limit. the logistics of having more teams would be very problematical. ASO have always said that 22 is the maximum.

It's no real surprise that the 4 wildcards have all gone to French teams. FDJ, Cofidis & Europcar were all certs to get invites. Geox will no doubt feel aggrieved, especially bearing in mind they have Sastre & Menchov, but i stronly suspect that ASO still not a fan of Gianetti following on from Saunier Duval in 2008, and they only reason Footon got in last year was because they were Pro-Tour, so this year ASO had their get out clause.

ASO are going to look after their own and that means as many french teams as possible. It will undoubtedly be the same for the giro, with Italians teams getting all the wildcards (Farnese-Vini, Androni & Acqua Sapone are guaranteed).

It's not looking good for Geox, they've missed out on Tirreno Adriatico as well now. Sponsors were not happy with Gianetti a few weeks ago, I imagine they are going to be less pleased now

 

[Ferminal]

I don't really care.

We get to see Menchov at a fun Giro as opposed to seeing him at a possibly good Tour?

Okay, it might be unfair, but those 4 wildcards are up to the ASO to decide, that's the whole point of them. They don't have a UCI system which ranks teams and then they make dodgy decisions based on performance/financial rankings, they just pick the teams they want.

The alarm bells have been ringing in Geox since they didn't get a WT license, this shouldn't come as a big shock to anyone.

 

[ergmonkey]

I don't really care.

We get to see Menchov at a fun Giro as opposed to seeing him at a possibly good Tour?

I'm not so sure about this one yet. Sure, Sastre is talking about targeting the Giro, but not getting invited to Tirreno-Adriatico is a pretty inauspicious beginning to any proposed Giro bid.

 

[Francois the Postman]

On a related note, although a bit off-topic: the realistic chances for a new team to net star riders willing to take a risk with them, without being able to guarantee their entry into top events, got another pounding today.

 

[luckyboy]

I just hope someone beats Schleck seeing how this is all setting up rather nicely for him.

I hate how the organisers just bent to the UCI having every WT team at all the races.

And as much as I like French teams - picking Saur over Menchov, Sastre, Cobo, de la Fuente, Ardila etc. is pretty unbelievable, no matter how you spin it with the French teams thing or revenge on Gianetti.