TDF 2016 Green Jersey

[Netserk]

I hope Sagan will get 2nd or 3rd on stage one, so that he doesn't have to win stage two to get yellow. In that scenario, I hope many would realize how much bigger a chance there is for the break to take one of the next two stages, as Tinkoff wouldn't have any interest to chase *at all*. Hopefully Etixx would be forced to pull the entire day, though I have no doubt Lotto would help as well...

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

It is not so bad. I do not think they want to punish him otherwise they would not made the finish in stage 2 and 4 like that. If they do not change the points for intermediate sprints (let´s say only 5 riders 20-15-10-6-3 ) he will be still huge favorite.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

It is not so bad. I do not think they want to punish him otherwise they would not made the finish in stage 2 and 4 like that. If they do not change the points for intermediate sprints (let´s say only 5 riders 20-15-10-6-3 ) he will be still huge favorite.

Agreed; they are always changing the route and classification systems to make the race more competitive. Same as this year they don't want another Froome procession, so they've designed TTs to limit Quintana's losses.

The points classification changes aren't to punish Sagan, just to make it more of a competition. He's still strong favourite. Top riders should be able to adapt to slight changes as well and overcome them - that way proves that a rider winning a TdF competition multiple times is a genuine incredible talent, rather than someone who just was very well suited to one particular type of route or classification.

 

[Anderis]

Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

If they tried really that hard to punish Sagan, they would've designed the route with only pancake flat stages, high-mountain stages and TTs.

 

[saganftw]

i am of oposite opinion,this year will not be harder than last year

kittel will have his own problems just finishing the tour and greipel will nick a stage or two simply by being cunning - the fight between top sprinters will ensure nobody will consistently win a lot of stages

i personaly dont believe that the number of top sprinting talent will mean much to sagan,he is the best bike handler he will always find comfortable spot to grab second and third places - the only dangerous thing is bouhanni fighting for kittels wheel

and he will go into breaks because thats what he does,while other sprinters are incapable of that on regular basis,i think after two weeks they will give up green thinking about champs elysees sprint

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

In 2011, they changed the rules in order to reward the most successful sprinter. And Cavendish won that jersey.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

In 2011, they changed the rules in order to reward the most successful sprinter. And Cavendish won that jersey.

There you go... Another proof of anti - Sagan conspiracy.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

In 2011, they changed the rules in order to reward the most successful sprinter. And Cavendish won that jersey.

They did? I didn't remember.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

It's kinda ridiculous how hard they're trying to punish Sagan for being so alround. When Cav won 6 stages in 2009 and 5 stages in 2010, him not winning green wasn't a problem.

In 2011, they changed the rules in order to reward the most successful sprinter. And Cavendish won that jersey.

They did? I didn't remember.

They reformed intermediate sprints : instead of three minor IS (6-4-2 points for each), it is now one per stage (20 points for the winner).
In flat stages, the winner had 35 points pre-2011. Post-2011, it was 45. Now it's 50.

 

[veji11]

For Sagan not to win other sprinters than Kittel need to be in top form : Kittel doesn't really care for green, he probably won't see the Champs Elysées anyway. But riders like Bouhanni or Coquard or Degenkolb or Greipel or Kristoff could want to fight for the green if they have a chance. If those riders (and Cav) are in a good enough form to bump Sagan down to top 10 finishes on flat stages AND some punchers like GVA or Alaphilippe or others manage to give him a headache on stages like stage 2, well it then becomes possible. The first 4 stages will set the tone.

 

[King Boonen]

Jerseys are pointless if it's obvious from the start who's going to win and it ends up being a procession. No one tunes in to see that. I think they might have got the balance just about right this year and if all the top sprinters turn up on form it should be interesting. I still think Sagan will take it due to consistency and actually finishing the race, but hopefully it'll be a bit more of a competition.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

The green jersey's rule is a bit "anti Sagan" since 2015, imho it's unfair because this penalizes his all-round abilities. Just for that I hope he'll win this classification for the 5th time !

The points system is perfectly fine. A Vuelta type classification where each stage is worth the same is much more bs, GC contenders end up accidentally beating dominant sprinters

 

[Jspear]

Sagan will no doubt win it again. We can discuss by how much, but surely he'll win it.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

For Sagan not to win other sprinters than Kittel need to be in top form : Kittel doesn't really care for green, he probably won't see the Champs Elysées anyway. But riders like Bouhanni or Coquard or Degenkolb or Greipel or Kristoff could want to fight for the green if they have a chance. If those riders (and Cav) are in a good enough form to bump Sagan down to top 10 finishes on flat stages AND some punchers like GVA or Alaphilippe or others manage to give him a headache on stages like stage 2, well it then becomes possible. The first 4 stages will set the tone.

What makes you think this? He's won on the Champs Elysees twice.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

For Sagan not to win other sprinters than Kittel need to be in top form : Kittel doesn't really care for green, he probably won't see the Champs Elysées anyway. But riders like Bouhanni or Coquard or Degenkolb or Greipel or Kristoff could want to fight for the green if they have a chance. If those riders (and Cav) are in a good enough form to bump Sagan down to top 10 finishes on flat stages AND some punchers like GVA or Alaphilippe or others manage to give him a headache on stages like stage 2, well it then becomes possible. The first 4 stages will set the tone.

What makes you think this? He's won on the Champs Elysees twice.

And the only other Tour he competed in, he was ill on one of the early stages.

 

[SKSemtex]

Pool added.

 

[Gigs_98]

The poll basiclally sums up the whole discussion perfectly. It doesnt matter by how much Sagan will win, it only matters if he will win and he will! Kittel just doesnt have the abilities to get points besides the sprints at the end of flat stages and everyone else will miss the big points at the end of flat stages with one exception: Sagan. Sagan simply is the only sprinter who can also get lots of points on mountainous or at least hilly stages and therefore the only one who really deserves the jersey and the one who will most likely win the jersey. Everything else doesn't really matter.

 

[memyselfandI]

The poll basiclally sums up the whole discussion perfectly. It doesnt matter by how much Sagan will win, it only matters if he will win and he will! Kittel just doesnt have the abilities to get points besides the sprints at the end of flat stages and everyone else will miss the big points at the end of flat stages with one exception: Sagan. Sagan simply is the only sprinter who can also get lots of points on mountainous or at least hilly stages and therefore the only one who really deserves the jersey and the one who will most likely win the jersey. Everything else doesn't really matter.

+1

Let's just hope Nacer throws Kittel to the barriers like Bettini once did to..?..who was it..anyone? (should be fun to watch)

 

[PremierAndrew]

Wouldn't surprise me if Nacer ends up headbutting Kittel after getting away with it back at the Dauphine

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Wouldn't surprise me if Nacer ends up headbutting Kittel after getting away with it back at the Dauphine

Not sure he'd be brave enough to; Kittel would swat Bouhanni away like an annoying fly.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't surprise me if Nacer ends up headbutting Kittel after getting away with it back at the Dauphine

Not sure he'd be brave enough to; Kittel would swat Bouhanni away like an annoying fly.

Kittel might look as a Drago from Rocky IV, however Bouhanni as former boxer should easily knock him out

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't surprise me if Nacer ends up headbutting Kittel after getting away with it back at the Dauphine

Not sure he'd be brave enough to; Kittel would swat Bouhanni away like an annoying fly.

Kittel might look as a Drago from Rocky IV, however Bouhanni as former boxer should easily knock him out

Yeah,the guy' still sparring with legit pros like Hakim Chioui durning the winter and Greipe already backed down once, I don't think that many active pros would be crazy enough to challenge him to a fist fight.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't surprise me if Nacer ends up headbutting Kittel after getting away with it back at the Dauphine

Not sure he'd be brave enough to; Kittel would swat Bouhanni away like an annoying fly.

Kittel might look as a Drago from Rocky IV, however Bouhanni as former boxer should easily knock him out

My money would be on Kittel. A 20kg weight advantage, 12cm taller and absolutely bursting with fast twitch muscle fibres.

I think the fight will not be with Kittel anyway - the fight will be with all the other sprinters to get on Kittel's wheel. You'll have Kristoff, Bouhanni, Cavendish, Greipel, Sagan, Degenkolb, Matthews and all their lead out men trying to get on the back of the Etixx train. It could be carnage.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't surprise me if Nacer ends up headbutting Kittel after getting away with it back at the Dauphine

Not sure he'd be brave enough to; Kittel would swat Bouhanni away like an annoying fly.

Kittel might look as a Drago from Rocky IV, however Bouhanni as former boxer should easily knock him out

My money would be on Kittel. A 20kg weight advantage, 12cm taller and absolutely bursting with fast twitch muscle fibres.

I think the fight will not be with Kittel anyway - the fight will be with all the other sprinters to get on Kittel's wheel. You'll have Kristoff, Bouhanni, Cavendish, Greipel, Sagan, Degenkolb, Matthews and all their lead out men trying to get on the back of the Etixx train. It could be carnage.

Have you ever had some street/pub fight against former boxer or carate kid . I am 87/182 and I had a lot of them, and I know what I am talking about. 20 kg / 12 cm means nothing if Kittel never have had fight before.

With carnage you are right. The green jersey can be easily won by somebody who will avoid all the crashes caused by getting on Kittels back wheel. One thing is sure , we will definitely see some.

 

[saganftw]

cavendish and bouhanni in the same sprint fighting for wheels ...thats gonna be posted on a porn site under "gore"