Tdf Stage 11 - Thursday, July 15 2010, Sisteron - Bourg-lès-Valence, 180 km

[TourOfSardinia]

Lance loses 29 secs

Another half min behind for seven-times winner Lance Armstrong.
What's up with him?

 

[goggalor]

A DQ is not too harsh, they need to draw the line. Any other punishment would mean nothing, except that leadout men are free to take out competitors to their sprinter.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

More like Zinedine Zidane's red card in the World Cup final vs. Italy in '06 - not too harsh!

Good comparison!

 

[Francois the Postman]

Ignoring the deviation from Dean at the very front, did HTC not put themselves in a race position where this was an incident waiting to happen?

It seems to be a more pronounced feature this tour that we don't have one train leading out, but multiple trains steaming simultaneously. The other teams seem to make more effort to box Cav in, by putting a train right next to him. The only way to give Cav the road is if Renshaw veers off, but with ANY rider next to him, and HTC picking the rail, that's your problem right there.

If Dean hadn't gone in a fraction, where would Renshaw have veered to? Seems that HTC runs (ran) the risk of boxing themselves in, by giving Cav no space unless the whole lot moves away from the barrier.

It looks a bit to me, playing some of the Cav sprints of this season back in my head, that HTC hasn't always had the space on the road that they got so used to, and maybe the agitation comes from having to contest road space a lot firmer. Forgetting that there are no rules that say you should leave space beside a train. Space that they need for their style of lead-out.

 

[131313]

That's harsh. Very harsh. What about those two having a punch up after that earlier stage?

Well, when two 60kg cyclists are swinging at each other, I think we can safely say that no one is going to get hurt. This, on the other hand, is a totally different matter...

The hook on Farrar sure looked deliberate, and both the head butting and the hook were damn dangerous. There are only two possible punishment which would carry any weight: DQ Cav or kick out Renshaw. I think it was a fair call.

If his actions had caused a massive pileup there wouldn't even be any discussion. Should they just wait for that to happen? Seems that meting out punishment based on actions rather than consequences makes more sense to me.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I remember Freire versus Renshaw in an earlier stage in this Tour were both riders were head-butting eachother too. But both Freire and Renshaw didn't get warned or expelled back then

A bit subjective behaviour from the ASO. They are sending out mixed signals.

 

[Ramira]

Another half min behind for seven-times winner Lance Armstrong.
What's up with him?

I'm thinking he's simply not wasting any energy when he doesn't need to (sorta like a lot of Contador's mountain helpers) and at the same time losing some more time so he's not a threat for any GQ rider in order to set himself up for a breakaway win in the pyrenees, he has to be planning something yet.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Armstrong right on the tail........wind.

Lance dropped another 30 seconds today.

 

[hrotha]

I remember Freire versus Renshaw in an earlier stage in this Tour were both riders were head-butting eachother too. But both Freire and Renshaw didn't get warned or expelled back then

A bit subjective behaviour from the ASO. They are sending out mixed signals.

IIRC that time they were leaning on/shoving each other. Renshaw was headbutting Dean when they weren't even fighting for a position anymore.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I remember Freire versus Renshaw in an earlier stage in this Tour were both riders were head-butting eachother too. But both Freire and Renshaw didn't get warned or expelled back then

A bit subjective behaviour from the ASO. They are sending out mixed signals.

Especially when you have Carlos "Eat my Wheel" Barredo and Costa hit with a paltry few hundred Euro fine for brawling on the floor in public.
Hardly the ASO image du jour.
Very confused signals, I'd say.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I remember Freire versus Renshaw in an earlier stage in this Tour were both riders were head-butting eachother too. But both Freire and Renshaw didn't get warned or expelled back then

A bit subjective behaviour from the ASO. They are sending out mixed signals.

You don't think that they have seen that, and that adding it all up, they are seeing their sprints get really out of control, progressively, rather than a one-off incident in isolation that might be waived away without too much consequences?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The ASO is like a gay boy in puberty?

 

[Anonymous]

Thats green pretty much ******ed for cav then without renshaw

1.PETACCHI A.161 Pts
2.HUSHOVD T.157 Pts
3.MC EWEN R.138 Pts
4.CAVENDISH M.132 Pts

 

[Francois the Postman]

Especially when you have Carlos "Eat my Wheel" Barredo and Costa hit with a paltry few hundred Euro fine for brawling on the floor in public.
Hardly the ASO image du jour.
Very confused signals, I'd say.

That was a stationary brawl that didn't endanger any other riders than the two involved. This type of shenanigans could easily have ended careers.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Especially when you have Carlos "Eat my Wheel" Barredo and Costa hit with a paltry few hundred Euro fine for brawling on the floor in public.
Hardly the ASO image du jour.
Very confused signals, I'd say.

But that wasn't at peak time - when all the world is watching - and
wasn't calculated to modify the result of the race.

 

[TRDean]

Thats green pretty much ******ed for cav then without renshaw

1.PETACCHI A.161 Pts
2.HUSHOVD T.157 Pts
3.MC EWEN R.138 Pts
4.CAVENDISH M.132 Pts

It was ****ed by Cav himself when he quit sprinting in the earlier stage...he wouldn't have won green anyway.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Anyone remember the McEwen O'Grady Tour head butting incident?

Only a relegation in a massed spint situation.

As DT says, no consistency.

(I don't know why I'm arguing this point. I'm certainly no Columbia/Cav fan.)

 

[Cerberus]

But that wasn't at peak time - when all the world is watching - and
wasn't calculated to modify the result of the race.

And it couldn't have resulted in a major crash with serious injuries to people other than those involved (nor probably to serious injuries among those involved).

 

[hrotha]

Especially when you have Carlos "Eat my Wheel" Barredo and Costa hit with a paltry few hundred Euro fine for brawling on the floor in public.
Hardly the ASO image du jour.
Very confused signals, I'd say.

I think the rules make a distinction between race incidents and post-race incidents.

 

[roundabout]

Was McEwen leading anyone out at the time?

Relegating sprinters for headbutting is one thing, relegating leadouts has no consequence as long as their sprinter wins.

 

[The Sheep]

Anyone remember the McEwen O'Grady Tour head butting incident?


Only a relegation in a massed spint situation.

As DT says, no consistency.

(I don't know why I'm arguing this point. I'm certainly no Columbia/Cav fan.)[/quote]

Problem is if they only relegated Renshaw it wouldn't affect them at all. They could have given them a warning first though that the next time he would be DQed.

 

[benpounder]

Renshaw unquestionably blocked Farrar, and I'd say intentionally. Check out this video. At 0:50 Renshaw pulls off to his right (notice his position vis-a-vis the lane markings), at 0:52 he looks over his left shoulder where Farrar would be hard to miss (again, note his position on the road). It is after he looks over his shoulder that he abruptly moves to the left a good meter, blocking off Farrar enough so that at 0:54 you see Farrar on the barriers with his right hand on Renshaw's back. ASO made the right decision.

 

[El Oso]

Not sure they'd make that decision so quickly. Surely they'll need to review the tape etc first.

Apparently they reviewed the tapes all of one time:

Top race official Jean-Francois Pescheux said after the race: “Renshaw was declassified immediately but we have decided to also throw him off the race.

“We’ve only seen the pictures once, but his actions are plain for all to see. This is a bike race, not a gladiator’s arena.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/07/news/cavendishs-lead-out-man-mark-renshaw-thrown-out-of-tour_129190

 

[The Sheep]

Apparently they reviewed the tapes all of one time:


http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/07/news/cavendishs-lead-out-man-mark-renshaw-thrown-out-of-tour_129190

To be fair to them, it's not like you would see it any different a second time.

 

[El Oso]

Ignoring the deviation from Dean at the very front, did HTC not put themselves in a race position where this was an incident waiting to happen?

It seems to be a more pronounced feature this tour that we don't have one train leading out, but multiple trains steaming simultaneously. The other teams seem to make more effort to box Cav in, by putting a train right next to him. The only way to give Cav the road is if Renshaw veers off, but with ANY rider next to him, and HTC picking the rail, that's your problem right there.

If Dean hadn't gone in a fraction, where would Renshaw have veered to? Seems that HTC runs (ran) the risk of boxing themselves in, by giving Cav no space unless the whole lot moves away from the barrier.

It looks a bit to me, playing some of the Cav sprints of this season back in my head, that HTC hasn't always had the space on the road that they got so used to, and maybe the agitation comes from having to contest road space a lot firmer. Forgetting that there are no rules that say you should leave space beside a train. Space that they need for their style of lead-out.

I think losing Hincapie has hurt the HTC-Columbia train more than anybody would have thought. If you look at when teams are disrupting the train and forming their own it's at the point where George was running the pace. Look at the Champs Élysées last year. Garmin tried to take Farrar to the front with their own train then George stepped on the gas and left them in his wake. This year teams, especially Lampre, have had some success forming their own train to disrupt HTC-Columbia.