Tdf Stage 11 - Thursday, July 15 2010, Sisteron - Bourg-lès-Valence, 180 km

[Roland Rat]

Well, when two 60kg cyclists are swinging at each other, I think we can safely say that no one is going to get hurt. This, on the other hand, is a totally different matter...

Yeah, probably. Depends whether you're looking from a "dangerous" viewpoint or "bringing the TdF into disrepute" viewpoint.

 

[kurtinsc]

I think HTC should "protest" by not working at all to pull back any breaks for the rest of the tour.

Send people in breaks instead.... and if other people bring back the group then have fresh helpers to set up the train for Cav.

 

[riobonito92]

Re: Fighting after the stage - from the 2007 Tour of Virginia:

Riders punished for Virginia altercation

USA Cycling has announced the suspension of three members, following a physical altercation at the Tour of Virginia, a USA Cycling National Racing Calendar event in April. Jame Carney (Team Alliance International) has been issued a nine-month suspension for his role in the incident under USAC rules 102 and 105, having displayed "unsportsmanlike conduct". Carney's teammate John DeLong and Mark Hardman (University of Virginia Cycling Team) were each given one-year suspensions for their roles, having violated the same rules as Carney.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul05news

Maybe someone who knows more about this incident can give more information - I don't know any more than what is stated here. However, it does seem that a suspension would be in order.

 

[biokemguy]

Renshaw DQ'd

I'm thinking they threw Renshaw out of the race just to make it more exciting.

When the winner of a sprint stage is a mere formality why bother watching?

What Renshaw did wasn't playing fair, but I don't think he deserved to be sent home for it.

 

[riobonito92]

As for Renshaw: Many of us have grown up with the unwritten rule that if you don't take your hands off the bars or feet off the pedals and you don't deliberately try to make someone crash, then the most you will get is a stage DQ.

In fact its the sort of thing that the Eurosport commentors say all the time to explain / excuse erratic sprinting.

And how about a rule that says if the lead-out man gets DQ the sprinter keeps the stage win but not the points?

 

[Captain Serious]

I'm not reading every post; was Renshaw penalised for the headbutting, blocking, or both?

 

[Jamsque]

Well, I was wrong. They DQ'd Renshaw for the headbut, not his much more dangerous and much more cynical move to squeeze Farrar and EBH in to the barriers.

I understand the argument that relegation doesn't matter to a lead-out man, but honestly I think a straight disqualification for that headbut is excessive. Deano was muscling in on him and he was trying to make sure Cav had enough space to launch his sprint, sure it was't pretty but a bit of jostling and shoving is to be expected in a sprint finish.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

I think the problem was that today Renshaw commited 2 separate incidents that would have led to an automatic demotion to last place in the bunch. First the headbutt on Dean, then the block on Farrar (which I personally thought was the worst of the two as it was a cynical attempt to block a rider). If you've already demoted him for the first offence the only way you could punish the second one would be to throw him out the race which I personally think was the right thing to do.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I think losing Hincapie has hurt the HTC-Columbia train more than anybody would have thought. If you look at when teams are disrupting the train and forming their own it's at the point where George was running the pace. Look at the Champs Élysées last year. Garmin tried to take Farrar to the front with their own train then George stepped on the gas and left them in his wake. This year teams, especially Lampre, have had some success forming their own train to disrupt HTC-Columbia.

I pretty much agree with that. It's one chain short of invincible now.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-TJNg6rp8s

Interview with Renshaw after todays stage.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Lance dropped another 30 seconds today.

How is he doing in the competition for the gray jersey? I can't find it on letour.fr.

He dropped down to 32d in the overall.

 

[Captain Serious]

Farrar, after the stage

http://www.youtube.com/user/ozcyclingdotcom

 

[Beech Mtn]

Renshaw's over reaction was, nevertheless a reaction, not an instigation.

I think the race judges have just condemned Saturday's stage and possibly the Bordeaux stage (if it remains hot as forecast) to suffer the same, slow lingering death as we witnessed, yesterday.
For I don't see Columbia will be willing to tow the peloton, just to run out of train when it counts.

Even more, extremely dire, dull days ahead is the net result.

I disagree. I think it opens the sprint up quite a bit. Petacchi is looking strong, but Cav has his confidence back. It's Cav's chance to prove that he can sprint without Renshaw there to guide him through the pack. Mind you, I'm not sure how well Cav can do without Renshaw, but it's going to be interesting to see what it does to his confidence. Can Cav ride Petacchi's wheel, or jump on Tyler's wheel, and still win a sprint? Will the Lampres be able to control things, or will the Garmin train (down a man without Hunter) be able to bring Tyler to the front? Will Thor get some Cervelos to work for him?

I think removing Renshaw from the equation opens a lot of possibilities. Much as I don't like Cav, I could see him trying to win one to dedicate it to Renshaw, and to prove that he can sprint on his own without MR.

 

[Beech Mtn]

How is he doing in the competition for the gray jersey? I can't find it on letour.fr.

He dropped down to 32d in the overall.

Lance lost nearly a minute and half yesterday, and I didn't hear Phil-n-Paul mention it. Finally maybe we are going to treat him as an also-ran instead of contender. I think he's losing time to try to get in a break and go for a stage win at some point, so he can have a triumphant moment to go out on.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Beech: I ain't talking about the sprint, but the 150ks leading up to it.

Other forums have put forward the theory that Columbia will now try to put men in the break and let others do the chasing.

I think a lot of folks are reading this as a Cav v Farrar thing, but the DQF is not to do with them.
It was a Renshaw v Dean thing.

Farrar's last remark is, quite frankly, bollocks.
(and I much prefer Tyler to Cav)

 

[Dedelou]

I'm thinking they threw Renshaw out of the race just to make it more exciting.

When the winner of a sprint stage is a mere formality why bother watching?

What Renshaw did wasn't playing fair, but I don't think he deserved to be sent home for it.

hehe.(yeah, I think they should invent a 10 days order of protection that forbid him to get near the front of the pack for the next 10 days .. he would be allowed to carry a camera and take pictures of the other racers sprinting. That way he can show them to his kids after he retires instead of having to show his disgrace.

 

[Straßenrennen]

http://www.youtube.com/user/ozcyclingdotcom

cav reaction on there now.. interesting.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Beech: I ain't talking about the sprint, but the 150ks leading up to it.

Other forums have put forward the theory that Columbia will now try to put men in the break and let others do the chasing.

I think a lot of folks are reading this as a Cav v Farrar thing, but the DQF is not to do with them.
It was a Renshaw v Dean thing.

Farrar's last remark is, quite frankly, bollocks.
(and I much prefer Tyler to Cav)

Ah, I see. I pretty much already automatically write off the 150K leading up to a sprint on most flat stages, unless the race is run in Holland, Belgium, has wind, or something to break up the monotony of DSes on radio controlling exactly when the break will be brought back.

 

[Ryaguas]

Well with Hansen injuried and Renshaw out of La Grande Boucle Manx Missile is losing A LOT of help for the final sprints... Of course with his confidence back he has showed that he has the fastest kick and the top velocity in the final meters but without those men specially Renshaw he will has a hard times for the final kilometers...

IMO HTC is not going to make more trains and the order to Manxman will be suck Ale-jet wheel big time and as he has a fastest kick he is going to try to steal to Ale-jet the stage victory...

For me Renshaw out of the competition are great news cuz this means that Ale-jet will have more chances to win La maillot vert and have more stage victories if Lampre can make a good lead-out train...

GO ALE-JET!!!!

 

[The Sheep]

What about Eisel? Can't he do the last lead out?

 

[ScottyMuser]

As for Renshaw: Many of us have grown up with the unwritten rule that if you don't take your hands off the bars or feet off the pedals and you don't deliberately try to make someone crash, then the most you will get is a stage DQ.

In fact its the sort of thing that the Eurosport commentors say all the time to explain / excuse erratic sprinting.

And how about a rule that says if the lead-out man gets DQ the sprinter keeps the stage win but not the points?

The problem is that its easily arguable that renshaw's swerve *at* Farrar WAS indeed trying to make someone crash. I think the TDF organisers ended up making the right decision, but said it was for the wrong reason. Farra was *incredibly* lucky not to either plough straight into the back of renshaw or straight into the barrier. *that* merits a "trying to make someone crash", especially as it came where it did, and the peloton would all have been down, ending several careers, and therefore it did merit a straight DQF from the race as a whole. ANYTHING less and its giving carte blanche to the teams sying "whatever you do do make others crash we won't punish you in a way that directly affects you in the future". A DQF for Renshaw from the stage means nothing, and nor does a fine, even a precedent shattering one like £100k, as HTC would be more than happy to pay anything in order to keep Cav winning

 

[Ryaguas]

What about Eisel? Can't he do the last lead out?

Nah forget it... you can't compare Eisel with Renshaw... Renshaw is WAY better than him... He can do something but not at Renshaw level...

1st Hansen and now Renshaw... that's gotta hurt...

 

[skidmark]

Okay, so the race summary (http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-11/results) says:

'it was a lucky number for Mark Cavendish as he took his 13th win and went into the history books - he has now won the most Tour de France stages of any current rider.'

I thought Armstrong had something like 22 stage wins?

Also,

'However, by winning Cavendish has beaten the record held by his mentor, Erik Zabel, who previously held the record whilst a professional, with 12 stage wins in la grande boucle.'

I keep thinking I'm reading it wrong, but I don't really have any other possible interpretation. That is just wildly incorrect. There are many riders with more than 12 TdF stage wins, are there not? Cyclingnews, what's the deal?

 

[therhodeo]

Merckx had what 34?

 

[Cobblestones]

Okay, so the race summary (http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-11/results) says:

'it was a lucky number for Mark Cavendish as he took his 13th win and went into the history books - he has now won the most Tour de France stages of any current rider.'

I thought Armstrong had something like 22 stage wins?

Also,

'However, by winning Cavendish has beaten the record held by his mentor, Erik Zabel, who previously held the record whilst a professional, with 12 stage wins in la grande boucle.'

I keep thinking I'm reading it wrong, but I don't really have any other possible interpretation. That is just wildly incorrect. There are many riders with more than 12 TdF stage wins, are there not? Cyclingnews, what's the deal?

There's about a dozen riders with more than 12 stage wins. Armstrong is one of them with 22 as you said. Merckx (who else) has the most as therhodeo said.