TdF Stage 12 - Fri 16th - Bourg-de-Péage - Mende 210.5km

[flicker]

I think he's not wasting any energy at this point. He's either going through the motions... or saving up for a stage somwhere.

I'm not sure how far behind he'd need to be to be let go early on a stage. He might be getting to that point though. I don't think it's being a "fanboy" to think that if he cared about finishing with the group on these stages that he could do so.

He clearly doesn't care. I don't know how to tell if it's tactical (losing time to be allowed to go) or just "giving up".

Lance could have held the Schleck group and come in ahead of Levi. What would be the point to anger the haters on this forum? Lance has another agenda.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Can we please put this idea that Contador attacking took the stage win away from Vino to bed? It's simply wrong. Rodriguez had already gone when Alberto attacked, if he hadn't then Rodriguez still would have caught and passed Vino and won the stage.

I agree, and no, they won't put it to bed. They hate AC. Sux for them.

Can someone please post a graph showing the direct correlation to how far Lance falls back every time the road goes up to how much 'stupid' there is in this thread?

 

[Anonymous]

Astana's tactics were almost perfect today. The only difference would have been if vino could have won and contador could have picked a bit more time over schleck. But they did what they wanted to do, forced saxo to use up energy, and showed schleck that AC had the measure of him.

A win for vino would have been great for the team, and when AC realised vino couldnt keep up he tried to get the win for the team himself. AC actually sacrificed gc time trying to get the win for the team.

Where people get the idea that theres no team spirit i dont know. That proved it. If ac was selfish he wouldnt have worried about the stage and just gone for time.

 

[indurain666]

Actually Vino going in the break was the perfect tactics, it forced Saxo to ride and allowed Astana to sit back and relax, and tactically it worked out the way they wanted to. The only question is whether or not Contador pulling Rodriguez that last 500m to get a few more seconds on Schlek was team tactics or him going off on his own, if it was tactics it was brilliant, if it was Contador acting on his own he's probably going to have to buy Vinokourov a nice watch like he did for LA.

AC actually exchanged the watch for a livestrong bracelet

 

[auscyclefan94]

tbh, If lance did what Ac did to AV then most posters would be getting stuck into him because he's LA.

 

[goggalor]

I thought Alberto's jump and Astana's racing today was similar to Saxo in stage 9 (when Voigt was dropped 500 m from the KOM) in that it was a sound tactical move, but poorly timed. If Vino had a few more seconds going into the climb, it would've been perfect. Mais, c'est la vie etc.

No way Vino would've beaten Rodriguez, though, he was cooked.

Also good to see Schlecklette put in her place, even if the battle for the overall win isn't looking too exciting atm.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I don't think that was Contador did was wrong in essence, and I do believe in most teams the same decision would be made if the leader was coming up and taking time on the yellow. But you do have to realise that this is Vino's team (yeye AC is the best cyclist but without Vino there would be no Astana) so like I said before, if Vino's ok with it it was a great move, if it ****ed Vino off in the long run AC is gonna regret it, regardless if it was the right thing to do or not.

First, Vino will be annoyed the victory escaped him, but he wont be annoyed at all with Contador's role in it. Rather the opposite actually, they appear to be very comfortable on the same team, with both of them supportive of the other's need to play and compete. I can only see Contador getting increasingly happy with how this whole "stay at Astana sentence" is working out. Expect a signature soon, if they haven't agreed already.

But let's assume that your reading is more accurate, and these two are at loggerheads.

In that situation Contador would only be regretting it if Vino had some trump cards over Contador, which he hasn't.

Within Astana Contador is the best rider by a mile and Vino (as rider/owner/DS) will be thanking Bruyneel on his bare knees for having made it impossible for Contador to leave Astana last year (oh the irony). And it's not like Contador would be homeless if Vino wants to show Contador the door.

 

[frizzlefry]

No. You're the RadioShack fanboy attacking Contador because you don't understand cycling tactics. Which is par for the course for your type.

But don't let me stop you from exposing your ignorance. Please, keep going. You're making this fun.

Again, RS has nothing to do with this discussion.

LOL, so teammates attacking teammates is good cycling tactics in your opinion?

 

[Ferminal]

Again, RS has nothing to do with this discussion.

LOL, so teammates attacking teammates is good cycling tactics in your opinion?

Contador attacked the Schleck group...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Again, RS has nothing to do with this discussion.

LOL, so teammates attacking teammates is good cycling tactics in your opinion?

Keep crapping on! Another one to my extending ignore list!

 

[Deagol]

.....As for LA, Eurosport wasn't mentioning it but the race ticker on the official site showed him dropping off the back of the peleton.

can anyone tell us what Phil, Paul, & Bob said about this?
Would be funny to here the explanation for those of us without TV

 

[Kamikaze]

I think you are grossly mischaracterizing what happened today. It wasn't about the stage win at all. It was about time and the psychological hammer that AC just laid on Schleck. It would have been great if Vino could have gotten the win, no doubt, but are you seriously contending that Vino would have held off Rodriguez.

I think we all saw what happened in the stage. What would have happened, it does not really matter. What happened is that both Contador and Vino were not happy when they crossed the line. Specially Vino by throwing his arm up. We are trying to figure out what was going on their mind. Both Contador and Vino should be happy that they gained 10 seconds on Andy, but that was not the case. When Vino crossed the line, he knew Andy was behind him. There was no reason of him being upsed, after seeing Contador being in front of him and knowing Andy was behind him. Not going to be fun in that bus tonight.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I love how the other day when Andy took 10 seconds out of Alberto, 10 seconds was very important, Andy was much stronger than AC, etc. Now suddenly people are claiming that 10 seconds doesn't matter, was a waste of a Vino stage win because AC is clearly better than Andy in the mountains.

Those seconds were deifferent seconds. No Comparison.

 

[therhodeo]

Again, RS has nothing to do with this discussion.

LOL, so teammates attacking teammates is good cycling tactics in your opinion?

Without the Versus Radioshack Cycling Hour everyday no one would think AC was a bad tactical rider. Thats an idea Phil and Paul have put in everyones head because Lance couldn't beat him last year.

 

[therhodeo]

Also anyone who's never played sports has no idea the psychological damage Alberto did today by riding past Andy.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Thank you for the insult. I've watched lots of cycling, thank you very much.

AS couldn't follow, but there's no way AC could gain any significant time on him. Realistically it was about the stage win. What AC did didn't improve his chances of taking the stage win.

But whatever. This thread has become a disgrace.

I think implicit in your statement is the thought that AC has won this race. He has not. But yes, if AC's win was guaranteed, a vino stage win would surely be icing on the cake for Astana.

 

[Roland Rat]

Also anyone who's never played sports has no idea the psychological damage Alberto did today by riding past Andy.

Yep, Schleck looked crushed at the finish.

Good. Hahahahahaaaaaa.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Also anyone who's never played sports has no idea the psychological damage Alberto did today by riding past Andy.

Agree! He looked like really upset with himself (for not responding quick enough) or that AC handed his **** to him.

 

[Publicus]

No, I don't think Vino could have followed JR's wheel when he passed him. I do think however that an uncooperative AC might have made Vino's comeback possible, and then he could have attacked, and that would have improved Astana's chances because JR is faster than AC.

As for the time gained on AS, it's not significant, just like AS's time gain in that other stage wasn't significant (didn't keep Andy from talking though). The psychological blow had already been administered when AS was dropped.

I'm just saying that, in such a situation, the stage win was the most important thing, and the only truly valuable thing to be gained from the situation. I'm not saying that Vino should have taken it, and I'm not saying Contador is a bad teammate. I'm just questioning his grasp of tactics.

And this has nothing to do with LA & RadioShack.

But that was the point here, Andy was struggling when AC attacked. He looked over at Andy laboring to get to JVB's wheel and went. That was the key moment because AC had been sitting back and not really doing anything the entire climb. I'll have to watch the replay, but that's how I recall it at the time.

Everything that followed was just part of the race IMO. And the 10 seconds was meaningful. For the psychological reasons and for the actual time gained. Andy has to attack MORE now. His advantage has shrunk to a guy he knows is a better time trialist. And that increases the likelihood that he (AS) will crack under the pressure. His grasps of stage tactics and the overall strategy are impeachable at this point. I'll wait to hear otherwise from Vino, but I don't think there will be any complaints out of the glorious nation camp.

I just don't see what all the hand wringing is about here....

 

[Climbing]

Nice win by Rodriguez, he raced perfectly and deserved the stage.
By the way good job for Krueziger, he dropped Basso and got 10th place!!!

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

I like how people Alexandre him "backstabbing snake" (sic) after stage 3 when he dropped "poor thing" Alberto on the last KM (after dragging him on the cobbles for 100 kms, the fact they conveniently omitted) now suddenly became Vino's biggest fans protecting him from the evil Alberto.

Really shows their agenda of pure spite againt the strongest team of the race.
________
Zx14 vs hayabusa

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Also anyone who's never played sports has no idea the psychological damage Alberto did today by riding past Andy.

Exactly. The psychological damage was worth far more than 10 seconds.

 

[Deagol]

Listen. I hate Contador. I hate with every fibre of my being. I think he is boring to watch and I think the fact that he's never been suspended is a disgrace to the sport.

THAT SAID, he did NOT attack his team-mate today. He saw Rodriguez go up the road, he knew what the gap to Vino was and he knew that Rodriguez would catch him and likely outsprint him for the stage, so he went after him to try to gain some time on the GC and maybe keep the stage win in the team. He tried to let Vino catch his wheel, and when that didn't work he tried to sprint for the win himself. He failed.

Nothing he did today was tactically unsound, and nothing he did today was contrary to the interests of his team. Of course Vino was annoyed crossing the line, he spent 100+km riding of the front and didn't win. I don't think there is any divide in the Astana camp this year.

Very well said IMO
I'm also not an AC fan and find him just as cocky as AS or anyone else (excpet for maby MC or LA) but see no problem with his tactics today

 

[auscyclefan94]

Cadel quote
"I wanted to take today as a bit of a test and see if I could follow and see how I am going," Evans said. "I'm better, but not back to the level of where I was at Morzine-Avoriaz. Climbing out of the saddle, especially on the steep climb today, I couldn't pull on my left side."

 

[VeloCity]

So putting 10 seconds into AS who is obviously not as strong as Contador on the steeper climbs was worth wasting a Stage win for Vino?

Sure it ended up being "only" 10 seconds in the end, but there's no way of knowing that at the time - what if AS had cracked completely and AC could have pulled 20 or 30 seconds back? Then would it have been worth it to you?

I'm sure Astana and Contador would've loved to have Vino take the stage, but a GC rider should never, ever be asked to pass up a chance to pull back time on his rivals no matter what the circumstances.