TDF Stage 16 - Tuesday, July 20 2010, Bagnères-de-Luchon - Pau, 196 km

[Anonymous]

lance also introduced me and my family to the sport and there was a time where we were very grateful, too. But I don't know how anyone who watched last year's tour could come away seeing him expose himself as a petty, narcissistic, low life who treats anyone who gets in his way despicably and still have an ounce of respect for him.

He is a cancer on cycling. (pun intended)

A truly disgusting fraud of a human being.

I also watched last year's Tour. I thought Lance came across very well. When in the decisive stage Contador attacked, Lance didn't chase and let him go. Wiggins wanted Lance to chase either Andy or Alberto but Lance refused and stayed with Kloden and Wiggins.

Not to mention how critical the Team Time Trial was where Lance gave his 110% so Contador's win was assured.

Lance performed great, got Contador to the Tour win like the team had planned and also got a bonus podium finish for himself.

It was a joy to watch him return to the Tour last year, definitely the tour's highlight.

 

[Mellow Velo]

well ITV4 said that Schleck should keep his revenge cool in the fridge of his hotel room for another 48 hours.

Do they know something?

BTW: before anyone piles in, this was actually said

Yes, ITV 4 has a suitcase full of faux pas!
No wonder they can't continue to follow down the denial path.

 

[Anonymous]

People we are all missing the big news of todays stage, and that is RadioShack have managed to mantain there 4minutes plus lead in the Team classification!

Yeah that's pretty awesome. Although I'm a bit disappointed they didn't extend it further. But I don't see them losing it now.

Go Radioshack.

 

[ScottyMuser]

LA was baked. Even last year, he would have gone with 20k and won this stage.

Can't agree - last year we would have seen more attacking and him dropped. The break and pelton took it as easy as possible today, almost treated it as a rest day, LA since coming back simply hasn't been good enough to rided with the best and it took 2 ITTs, a TTT and his team slow pedalling to get him 3rd last year, against an inferior gourp of riders/in form

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

Lance brought a new generation of fans to the sport. He single-handed probably doubled the global fan base.

Even the Tour itself recognizes what Lance has done for it. Who cares if those on this board don't.

Ummm, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say he doubled the global fan base.

I would say he increased 10 - 20 - 100+ fold the fans in the USA. But that would not double the global viewership.

I'm not trying to be contentious here. I disagree, but I admit I may be wrong and I honestly think this is a really interesting statement/question and would love to see some hard numbers put against it.

 

[kurtinsc]

I also watched last year's Tour. I thought Lance came across very well. When in the decisive stage Contador attacked, Lance didn't chase and let him go. Wiggins wanted Lance to chase either Andy or Alberto but Lance refused and stayed with Kloden and Wiggins.

Not to mention how critical the Team Time Trial was where Lance gave his 110% so Contador's win was assured.

Lance performed great, got Contador to the Tour win like the team had planned and also got a bonus podium finish for himself.

It was a joy to watch him return to the Tour last year, definitely the tour's highlight.

I'm not particularly "anti-lance" (in fact many call me a fanboy here)... but you are WAY off.

First, the decisive stage was Verbier... and Lance DID chase. In fact, he chased so hard he bonked and ended up losing time on others, having to get towed to the line by Kloden.

Second, the Grand Bornand stage to which you refer... Lance wasn't with Kloden. Kloden was up with Contador. Lance actually was dropped earlier in the stage, and rode back to the main group... TOWING OTHER RIDERS (including stage winner Frank Schleck) back to the lead group.

When the group of 4 were away (Kloden, Contador, Frank and Andy), Lance didn't work... because he didn't feel like any of them were a threat for 3rd... which is all he could hope for at that point in the tour. He let Vandevelde and Wiggins burn out chasing... then dropped them (and Nibali) on the last climb.

He was not riding for Contador last year. He rode for himself... initially for first place... then when that wasn't reasonable he rode for 3rd. At no point was he helping Contador... you don't steal water bottles from someone you are helping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Lance brought a new generation of fans to the sport. He single-handed probably doubled the global fan base.

Even the Tour itself recognizes what Lance has done for it. Who cares if those on this board don't.

The Tour cares about the Tour. It's a money-making enterprise. It doesn't care about the source of the money as long as it keeps flowing.

I don't know about Lance doubling the global fan base, but has certainly at least doubled the 3-week American cycling fan base.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Good post, kurt. And you're no fanboy. Even if your tolerance for Armstrong is a bit excessive.

 

[dgodave]

I credit Lance with making the roads safer for me. Seriously.
.
For a few years a cyclist was the best known athlete in the USA. Almost inconceivable prior. Cyclists are no longer just a bunch of dorks in the way of traffic.
.

 

[VeloCity]

Normally, I wake up at 6am. Automatically, no alarm needed. For some reason today I slept till 9:30 and missed todays stage. Frankly, my interest in the professional side of this sport has been waning for some time now so no big deal. But still, I went online to check out the results. I thought, surely after seeing so many nobodies allowed to win mtn stages today's stage would be dominated by the favourites, the men who should be dominating big mtn stages. Instead, Fedrigo wins out of a breakaway of non-contenders who finish many minutes ahead of the lead group containing, besides the GC men, such climbing stars as Ciolek, Hushovd, and Morabito.
Am I really the only person who understands just how f**ked that is?! Are these clowns planning to, you know, actually race their bicycles, or is this going to be a training ride for 99% of the time like almost every other bike race these days. I don't know what infuriates me more, the shameful excuse for a bike race or the fact that everyone seems to just accept it. If this had happened as recently as 20yrs ago, their would have been scathing editorials in the media. Riders would have been booed off the podium. It flat out wouldn't have been accepted. Really, it just amazes me how many times pro sports in general analy rape their supporters and the suckers(yes, me included) just keep beggin for more.

Less the riders fault than the organizers. Why have major climbs and then 60-70 kms of flats afterwards? Pointless. Just shorten the stage and have end it on top of the Aubisque, then there would've been fireworks.

 

[VeloCity]

For a few years a cyclist was the best known athlete in the USA. .

When was that? During Tiger Woods' heyday in the early '00s?

Look, Armstrong was the most high-profile American cyclist ever, but let's stop inflating him into something he never was.

 

[dgodave]

When was that? During Tiger Woods' heyday in the early '00s?

Look, Armstrong was the most high-profile American cyclist ever, but let's stop inflating him into something he never was.

I'm pretty sure its true.
Perhaps tied with Tiger.
.
The guy was all over the place. I'll bet the US Army's "Army Strong" slogan derives from Lance's massive name recognition. Seriously.
.
I'm not even a Lance fan... Having raced myself since the early 80's, Lemond was the man.
.

 

[Boleyn]

I also watched last year's Tour. I thought Lance came across very well. When in the decisive stage Contador attacked, Lance didn't chase and let him go. Wiggins wanted Lance to chase either Andy or Alberto but Lance refused and stayed with Kloden and Wiggins.

He didn't chase because he couldn't.

Not to mention how critical the Team Time Trial was where Lance gave his 110% so Contador's win was assured.

He gave 110% to get HIMSELF the MJ. Ironically, he eased off coming to the line and it cost him the MJ as he was the 5th one over!

Lance performed great, got Contador to the Tour win like the team had planned and also got a bonus podium finish for himself.

Nope. JB/LA and the lapdogs planned to get LA the win.

It was a joy to watch him return to the Tour last year, definitely the tour's highlight.

Not even close.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

When was that? During Tiger Woods' heyday in the early '00s?

Look, Armstrong was the most high-profile American cyclist ever, but let's stop inflating him into something he never was.

He didn't do too much for cycling, imo. He's always been more of a cultural oddity/icon. Bike shop owners still eke out a living for the most part.

Motorists are just as hostile as ever where I live.

After all the fireworks from yesterdays 'transmission breakdown', not a peep on espn TV or Radio. Lance is about Lance. he made it from the other side of the tracks to the bigtime. Good for him, I guess.

I don't think the growth of recreational cycling has been all that great due to him although he helped. Mostly as we age and have gotten fatter, we need an exercise to burn fat that is gentle on our knees. Walking, swimming and cycling. Pick one. Or pick all three.

 

[kurtinsc]

He didn't do too much for cycling, imo. He's always been more of a cultural oddity/icon. Bike shop owners still eke out a living for the most part.

Motorists are just as hostile as ever where I live.

After all the fireworks from yesterdays 'transmission breakdown', not a peep on espn TV or Radio. Lance is about Lance. he made it from the other side of the tracks to the bigtime. Good for him, I guess.

I don't think the growth of recreational cycling has been all that great due to him although he helped. Mostly as we age and have gotten fatter, we need an exercise to burn fat that is gentle on our knees. Walking, swimming and cycling. Pick one. Or pick all three.

Swimming as exercise has not increased the way cycling has though... at least not in any way I can see. I've been hitting pools for lap swimming ever since my competitive career ended 14 years ago... and numbers if anything seem less. The ones that do show up don't seem to be just hammering out laps for excercise or training for masters events... they're cyclists and runners who are getting into triathlons.

 

[marinoni]

Less the riders fault than the organizers. Why have major climbs and then 60-70 kms of flats afterwards? Pointless. Just shorten the stage and have end it on top of the Aubisque, then there would've been fireworks.

I agree, but that's only a tiny part of the problem. My point is there has been a gradual slide toward dull, take no chances racing and people just accept it. I really hate sounding like a grumpy old man. Most of the time, no matter what the subject, when people talk about the "good old days" they're wrong. The good old days included massive wars, high infant mortality- I could go on and on. But in the case of cycling, it's absolutely true. Compared to eras as recent as the late 80's bike racing today is just awful.

 

[nia O'Malley]

Well... you could replace North America with World. Except in Spain where Contador is big, most of the World only knows cycling through LA's accomplishment and branding.

Once he's gone, the sport is going to lose a lot.

Anyway, to those saying he's a cheat, please wait until the investigation is over to say such foolish stuff.

That has to be the stupidest post I've read this whole week.

Now you see, to me, this rubbish is worst than name calling. You aren't just insulting an individual poster, but entire nations, including Belgium, The Netherlands, Italy and France.

Don't forget Luxembourg, Great-Britain, Ireland, Germany and a lot of the ex USSR to name but a few more





I don't mean to be rude but when you american posters mention big words like "doubling fanbase" " brought cycling to the masses" and other big assertions I've been reading for the last 4 pages..... could you precise "In the USA"?
Just....you know, out of courtesy respect for the fact that you're not, maybe, the centre of the world? (and especially not the cycling world, let's face it)


Personally I dropped the Tour when Lance became a permanent fixture in it, and pretty mcuh everybody I know did too (The Festina scandal had something to do with it too to be honest, people got disgusted with that as well; everyone doped + someone with the personality and amiability of two bricks winning over and over just got too much) . I'm only starting to pay attention to it again, the black hole is thankfully over.
Far as I know he didn't bring anything to cyclism in France, where everyone watches le Tour since the day they are born (if you ask anyone, anyone in France about naming a cyclist, Anquetil / Poulidor, Hinault or Mercks will come first, I assure you), for the last 100 years or so, or even to Ireland where people like Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche are sport icons. I very much doubt Great Britain would care two hoots about someone from a colony, or Italy about any foreigner at all, and every other country on the continent has been mad into le tour since nearly as long as France, there are more bikes in Holland than people, that sort of thing.
Even rogue countries like Columbia <gasp> have a very long tradition in the tour.
China! is mad for le Tour. You really think it's to watch Lance?? China? (seemingly they love watching the countryside, btw)


Not seeing the columbians up the mountains still leaves a big massive gap for me, that's a tremendous loss, not seeing whatsisface and his ridiculous socks, more like a long awaited relief that is never, ever, ever, coming.






As for the booing situation, someone who was at the actual stage finishyesterday, posted that the vast majority of the booing was done by americans. I am not actually making this up, it's buried in the stage 15 thread

 

[nia O'Malley]

I agree, but that's only a tiny part of the problem. My point is there has been a gradual slide toward dull, take no chances racing and people just accept it. I really hate sounding like a grumpy old man. Most of the time, no matter what the subject, when people talk about the "good old days" they're wrong. The good old days included massive wars, high infant mortality- I could go on and on. But in the case of cycling, it's absolutely true. Compared to eras as recent as the late 80's bike racing today is just awful.

You know why don't you............ it's because of the stupid earpieces. I remember some riders refusing or trying to refuse to wear them 10 years ago (or maybe 15, time flies).....they lost the battle.
There can be NO initiative or no chances taken when your boss is in your head all day telling you everything that's going on.
Ban them, and you'll see an immediate difference. They are a pox and a plague on any form of entertainment for the crowds.

 

[kukiniloa]

Bruyneel's excuses

So Frankie asked Johann Bruyneel what his tactics were and Johan said something to the effect that because Fedrigo made the selection, they were screwed because he was just stronger.

Which tells me what I suspected - RS had no plan, and weren't willing to expend the energy to do anything.

Why rest for days in the mountains if you're not willing to win when you do get in the break?

Answer: Irrelevant. This team isn't interested in winning anything.

 

[The Hitch]

to be fair even in this country, lance armstrong is the number 1 name associated with road cycling, or tour de france cycling ( most people wont know there is road racing beyond the tdf) and this is a very anti american country.

The coverage in the newspapers of the tdf, even today will go something like this.

"The stage from y to z was won by rider a. He finished the race in x hours. the yellow jersey of race leader remains with rider b. He is n seconds ahead of riderc c. Britains Bradely Wiggins lies in p place. Lance Armstrong is h th."

then a list of all the riders in top 10 + all british riders + Lance Armstrong.

Also he is mentioned in other articles, like when a athlete gets cancer he will always be mentioned, or when a athlete tries to recover from injury by sleeping at altitude he will be mentioned.

In the english speaking world he is bigger than his sport. To the fan obviously not. But he even won the bbc sports personality of the year once and that award never goes to anyone from a sport which isnt aired by the bbc, yet armstrong won as a road cyclists- a sport bbc doesnt cover.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Armstrong made this sport great? F.off. It was a big sport here in Europa already and Armstrong didn't add to that. Legends like Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Fausto Coppi, Gino Bartali etc, THOSE, are the guys that made this sport big
Not f.ing LA. And without LA the sport won't lose anything in Europe.

 

[marinoni]

You know why don't you............ it's because of the stupid earpieces. I remember some riders refusing or trying to refuse to wear them 10 years ago (or maybe 15, time flies).....they lost the battle.
There can be NO initiative or no chances taken when your boss is in your head all day telling you everything that's going on.
Ban them, and you'll see an immediate difference. They are a pox and a plague on any form of entertainment for the crowds.

Were you starting to tell me to **** off, then changed your mind? I agree about the earpieces. The easiest thing would have been to ban them when they first appeared. Now it may be too late. Another place to lay the blame is on the sponsors accepting this crap. Whether it's lousy racing or riders who don't even pretend to care about the rest of the season, again that would never have been accepted. If Hinault had gone to his sponsors in 82 and told them he was only going to seriously race the Dauphine and the Tour then go on holiday for the rest of the season here's what would have happened, I mean after the laughter died down and they realized he was serious. They'd have given him two choices- get your a** back on your bike or go back to shovelling manure on your Dad's farm. I don't expect riders to go back to racing non-stop all season but the fact that sponsors accept this crap is hard to understand.

 

[nia O'Malley]

ha ha, no, I was whispering in your ear

 

[marinoni]

Armstrong made this sport great? F.off. It was a big sport here in Europa already and Armstrong didn't add to that. Legends like Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Fausto Coppi, Gino Bartali etc, THOSE, are the guys that made this sport big
Not f.ing LA. And without LA the sport won't lose anything in Europe.

Couldnt agree more. No doubt he has increased interest in the Tour in North America. However, I'd go so far as saying that he's actually damaged the sports profile otherwise. Just like with LA it's ALL about the Tour. Here in Canada it's common in the general media to hear the sport being called Tour de France. Not cycling or bike racing just Tour de France. It would be like if, in the UK, they called tennis Wimbledon.

 

[marinoni]

I forgot

About my last point. Here in Victoria we aren't exactly blessed with home-town heroes on the world stage. Steve Nash in the NBA, a couple pitchers in baseball and that's about it. So Ryder Hesjedal is getting a fair bit of attention in the local media for his excellent Tour this year. But here's the thing. When he finished 2nd at Amstel Gold, I had to phone a local TV station to let them know about it, then had to help them find some video online of the finish so they could do a quick story on his achievement. And no, I didnt' get paid! I'm fairly certain that no-one in the sports dept at the station was even aware bike racing existed outside the Tour.