TDF Stage 17 - Thursday, July 22 2010, Pau - Col du Tourmalet, 174 km

[Publicus]

He needed someone to pull him through the flat section betweent the 1st and 2nd climb. ideally someone who would drop from the breakaway group. unfortunatelly he's on his own

It's the karma I mentioned earlier.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

Basically the same squad sans Cuddles.

I don't think Cuddles had Moreno, and If so, that makes a huge difference.

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

I don't agree.

I think single rider dominance is not good for the Tour. The years where Indurain and Lance dominated were good for fans of those riders... but winning constantly by 4-5 minute gaps doesn't make the races particularly interesting. It feels like we're getting another stretch with Contador doing that... it would be better if Andy really could outclimb him and have a lead without the TT's... that would add a lot of suspense.

When the best TT rider is equal to the best climber in the mountains... then the tour can lack some suspense. Pantani vs Ulrich or Lemond vs Fignon years are the most enjoyable... even Sastre vs Evans.

+1, the tour is way more exciting when 3-8 (even more) have legit chances to win...

 

[Ramira]

Bala, could perhaps explain Chasse Patate a bit more? That link wasn't helpful

I think it generally refers to cyclist at the track who're stuck about half a lap in front of the group without getting anywhere basically being stuck somewhere in front of the group without having any chance of staying away. But I reckon it's a bit more complex then that. But the essence is pretty much he's stuck in front of the peleton and not going anywhere.

 

[Ferminal]

Anyone going to split it up over the Soulor?

 

[theovaf]

It's the karma I mentioned earlier.

Sastre's only chance now is only if Samu attacks on the Soulor descend

 

[Ramira]

I don't agree.

I think single rider dominance is not good for the Tour. The years where Indurain and Lance dominated were good for fans of those riders... but winning constantly by 4-5 minute gaps doesn't make the races particularly interesting. It feels like we're getting another stretch with Contador doing that... it would be better if Andy really could outclimb him and have a lead without the TT's... that would add a lot of suspense.

When the best TT rider is equal to the best climber in the mountains... then the tour can lack some suspense. Pantani vs Ulrich or Lemond vs Fignon years are the most enjoyable... even Sastre vs Evans.

+2

The absolute ideal for the next 5 or so years would be if AS gets a bit closer to AC in the TT's and turns into the better climber, that would turn the next few tours into something truly suspenseful rather then the obliged parade pretty much every LA win after then 2nd was.

 

[superconfex]

I don't think Cuddles had Moreno, and If so, that makes a huge difference.

but he did have VDB2 and i don't remember showing this form

 

[balkou]

So are you saying that a guy like Luis Ocana was as good as Francesco Moser against the clock?

And applying your same logic, you are saying that AC is better than AS against the clock cause AC has an aerodynamic bike and AS is riding a 10 speed steel huffy?

rather the opposite...

the bike it's the detail, the power output at the anaerobic threshold is that matters. And that ocana and moser, or contador and schleck are climbing the same it doesn't mean that they have the same power output. Another example was Basso during 2004-2005. He wasn't dropped by Lance in the climbs but he was 2' slower in every TT.

 

[sometriguy]

Anyone going to split it up over the Soulor?

I think saxo has to... They don't need to break the field, but they need to reduce it to 20-40 guys

 

[The Hitch]

Anyone going to split it up over the Soulor?

nope. we have asked this question over every single mountain they have had in the pyranees and every single mountain they chose to soft pedal.

I dont expect anything till the tourmalet.

 

[Lyds97]

I think saxo has to... They don't need to break the field, but they need to reduce it to 20-40 guys

I don't think Saxo can.

 

[sometriguy]

I don't think Saxo can.

that does create a bit of a quandary

 

[ericthesportsman6]

but he did have VDB2 and i don't remember showing this form

Actually, he finished strong, attacking the favorite group a few times on the Ventoux. That's why I was so surprised that everyone on this forum thought pre-TDF that he was some kind of opportunist who had gotten lucky in the past.

 

[kurtinsc]

Why didn't the Cervelo rider in the break wait for Sastre to help him through the valley section of the stage? Wouldn't that have made more sense if the goal was getting Sastre the stage?

 

[Publicus]

I think Saxo is trying and Astana just shut the door on them. I'm sure Saxo will try again.

 

[Big GMaC]

This is weak man

 

[salixcycling]

Why didn't the Cervelo rider in the break wait for Sastre to help him through the valley section of the stage? Wouldn't that have made more sense if the goal was getting Sastre the stage?

There is no Cervelo in the break.. Sastre had someone with him but they dropped back to the bunch.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

Why didn't the Cervelo rider in the break wait for Sastre to help him through the valley section of the stage? Wouldn't that have made more sense if the goal was getting Sastre the stage?

They don't have a rider in the break...

 

[Publicus]

Why didn't the Cervelo rider in the break wait for Sastre to help him through the valley section of the stage? Wouldn't that have made more sense if the goal was getting Sastre the stage?

He did. He was dropped on the Marie Blanque.

 

[Francois the Postman]

ps anyone seen/played this cycling boardgame before? Chasse patat

From what I know about it is is poor, certainly compared to other games out there. A family board game more than a cycling simulation game. If you are curious about cycling board games, this is a great starting point:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/19105/item/669681

 

[timmarshall]

that does create a bit of a quandary

Theyre going to blow really soon on Tourlamet anyway.. i dont see why they dont blow themselves up now and try to take a few with them, Andys going to be all on his lonesome 2k into Tourlamet anyway...

 

[Bala Verde]

I think it generally refers to cyclist at the track who're stuck about half a lap in front of the group without getting anywhere basically being stuck somewhere in front of the group without having any chance of staying away. But I reckon it's a bit more complex then that. But the essence is pretty much he's stuck in front of the peleton and not going anywhere.

Correct.

I don't really know what the origin of the expression is. Ie wikipedia attributes it to the track in a points or pair/couples race, when someone is half a lap in front of the group, but where the group doesn't go full out to chase him, but has set a high enough pace that the one in front won't be able to reconnect/lap the pack.

It's (Dutch/Flemish) cycling jargon for a fruitless or unproductive chase, 'swimming in between' a break and the peloton, whereby a rider, or group of riders neither gains time on the peloton or the break.

They are chasing potatoes. Another story is that it was used by BRT commentators during a stage, when for many hours 2 riders remained at 2 minutes from the break and the peloton. The commentator lamented "Amai, those 2 are still chasing potatoes".

 

[Piratical]

Why didn't the Cervelo rider in the break wait for Sastre to help him through the valley section of the stage? Wouldn't that have made more sense if the goal was getting Sastre the stage?

I think the thought is if that rider comes back they are both isolated and lost. The only real tactical hope is that Sastre could have bridged the gap, then he has a fresh teammate to latch on to and use the rest of the breakaway as well.

 

[icefire]

I don't think Cuddles had Moreno, and If so, that makes a huge difference.

Moreno was in Caisse last year. He was hired by OPL to help Cadel in the mountains just a few days before he announced his departure to BMC.