TdF TTT - GC winners & losers

[auscyclefan94]

I can see BMC doing better than saxo if GEL is not riding. although BMC does not have one super super TT rider. the team has many decent prologue riders and im sure they will do just fine.

no use if you have one super rider and 8 donkeys in the ttt. A team is required.

 

[dlwssonic]

no use if you have one super rider and 8 donkeys in the ttt. A team is required.

exactly. with quinziato, bookwalter, evans, burghardt, hincapie, schar, morabito all of them can do good prologues.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I would argue ttt is a lot of luck. Sure some guys choose wrong teams, but its also a case of which team you grow up with, and what nationality you are, things that have nothing to do with skill.

Cadel Evans is a much better tter than Ivan Basso, but he actually loses 1.30 in a ttt in the Giro. Where is Bassos skill there?



Its actually more a case of me not wanting to see Schleck and Gesink get a big headstart.



A minute is little?

To beat Schleck the secondary contenders like Evans Samu Basso, need every second they can get and Schleck to make a lot of mistakes. Starting a minute down is losing any hope before the first 200km have even been completed.

Even against his rivals for the podium, losing say 30 or even 20 seconds is a big effort that rider has to make to gain back that time.

The mountain stages are tougher this year. In the grand scheme of things a 30 second loss won't be significant when you can make the big gains on the Galibier or Plateau de Beille.

I am not so sure about how good Liquigas will be in the ttt or at the tour in general.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of the 1st week. The first 6 stages could have ramifications for the GC contenders.

 

[Winterfold]

I would argue ttt is a lot of luck. Sure some guys choose wrong teams, but its also a case of which team you grow up with, and what nationality you are, things that have nothing to do with skill.

What the same kind of luck as being born naturally skinny or at 2000m above sea level? The kind of luck Basques have for example...

You should try and ride a pace line in TT position, you'll quickly realise how skilful (and scary) it is. You have to have perfect bike handling absolutely flatout and total trust in teammates, and then big cojones.

The reasons Euskatel are **** at it are also because they often **** bike handlers, and not just because they are small and weedy.

Would you like bike handling as a factor taken out of the race? I hope not - wouldnt do your man any favours.

 

[nvpacchi]

Euskaltel is as bad as it gets in TTTs. Samu should be happy with 1:30 lost.

1:30 which will in the end be the difference between 3rd and 7th on GC.

Lame ****.

Lol they are NOT as bad as it gets in TTTs. Their Giro squad was filled with young guys and climbers so they were lame, but their Tour squad is totally different.

Remember they finished 10th in the 2009 TTT finishing only 2:08 down to the juggernaut that was Astana that year, and that was a 39 km TTT. The only differences in the lineup are Sanchez instead of Astarloza, Urtasun instead of Oroz Ugalde, and Velasco instead of Antón.

Sanchez, Martinez de Esteban, Verdugo, and Urtasun are all capable of delivering in a TTT, and Fernandez and R. Perez were part of the Vuelta '08 TTT squad that delivered a 2nd place result.

Not as good as it gets, but nowhere close to being the worst. No way they lose 1:30 and I would be shocked if they lost 1:00.

 

[Anonymous]

liqui looks fine for the TTT

 

[The Hitch]

What the same kind of luck as being born naturally skinny or at 2000m above sea level? The kind of luck Basques have for example...

You should try and ride a pace line in TT position, you'll quickly realise how skilful (and scary) it is. You have to have perfect bike handling absolutely flatout and total trust in teammates, and then big cojones.

The reasons Euskatel are **** at it are also because they often **** bike handlers, and not just because they are small and weedy.

Would you like bike handling as a factor taken out of the race? I hope not - wouldnt do your man any favours.

Im not a Euskatel fan just a Samu fan, so I dont really care about Basques advantages or disadvantages.

I dont see how Basque people being skinny or poor bike handlers is his fault. No doubt ttting is hard. But Samu doesnt lose time because hes a bad tter but because hes got a poor team.

Observe how Scarponi lost 2.36 in 2010 Giro tt but only lost 24 seconds (48 if you want to double it as the course was shorter) in the 2011 Giro.

I predicted all along that he would do better because he had a better team.

But maybe ive been looking in all the wrong places. Maybe he just became a way better bike handler in that time

 

[auscyclefan94]

Im not a Euskatel fan just a Samu fan, so I dont really care about Basques advantages or disadvantages.

I dont see how Basque people being skinny or poor bike handlers is his fault. No doubt ttting is hard. But Samu doesnt lose time because hes a bad tter but because hes got a poor team.

Observe how Scarponi lost 2.36 in 2010 Giro tt but only lost 24 seconds (48 if you want to double it as the course was shorter) in the 2011 Giro.

I predicted all along that he would do better because he had a better team.

But maybe ive been looking in all the wrong places. Maybe he just became a way better bike handler in that time

Pretty much why I hate team time trials. They have no place in grand tours imo.

 

[supercameron]

Pretty much why I hate team time trials. They have no place in grand tours imo.

Did you hate on the first few stages of the tour last year? because a grand tour is meant to be the ultimate test of cycling and needs to involve different aspects of racing. The cobbles last year was a good inclusion and since it is a team sport having the TTT is just part of the sport. I do think that there should be limits placed on it though so if something bad was to happen then you only lose a maximum of say 2 minutes for this route

 

[nesocip]

Lol they are NOT as bad as it gets in TTTs. Their Giro squad was filled with young guys and climbers so they were lame, but their Tour squad is totally different.

Remember they finished 10th in the 2009 TTT finishing only 2:08 down to the juggernaut that was Astana that year, and that was a 39 km TTT. The only differences in the lineup are Sanchez instead of Astarloza, Urtasun instead of Oroz Ugalde, and Velasco instead of Antón.

Sanchez, Martinez de Esteban, Verdugo, and Urtasun are all capable of delivering in a TTT, and Fernandez and R. Perez were part of the Vuelta '08 TTT squad that delivered a 2nd place result.

Not as good as it gets, but nowhere close to being the worst. No way they lose 1:30 and I would be shocked if they lost 1:00.

If they lose less then a minute ill celebrate naked on top of the Galibier.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

If they lose less then a minute ill celebrate naked on top of the Galibier.

right

 

[Oreknan]

Pretty much why I hate team time trials. They have no place in grand tours imo.

i agree. i think at least count the 5th men time and individual classification is not compatible

 

[nvpacchi]

If they lose less then a minute ill celebrate naked on top of the Galibier.

I'll hold you to that

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think team time trials add anything to the race and it really handicaps good riders in weaker teams. I would like to see it gone for good. What is the point of no time bonuses on stage finishes and then incorporating a team time trial ? I would like to see something different with the time trials next year. Make it more of a challenge for the mountain goats maybe. Bring back the cobbles as well.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I've never understood why having a strong team in the mountains is widely considered to be an important and worthy part of GT cycling, as it's a team sport after all, but having a strong team in the TTT is an unfair advantage and should be banished all together.

TTTs are great. Long may they continue.

 

[The Hitch]

I've never understood why having a strong team in the mountains is widely considered to be an important and worthy part of GT cycling, as it's a team sport after all, but having a strong team in the TTT is an unfair advantage and should be banished all together.

.

No worries. Ill explain it for you.

In the mountains, if you are good enough, you can just go without your team and get your own time. There are other people to draft behind. Its been done countless times and many if not most gts have been won that way.

In a ttt, even if you flew away and broke the world speed record, you would still only get the time of the 5th member of your team.

Mountains - you get your own time.

TTT- you get someone elses time.

Simple.

 

[Bavarianrider]

This is just a gimmick stage anyway. 23km of TT is a waste of a day. If you have a TTT it has to be 60km +. Anything esle is just stupid and doesn't add anything to the race.

 

[lancaster]

i vote for a TTT with individual timing.
strong teams benefit but teams with only 2/3 guys who can stick with their GC Hope not hamstrung.

 

[Bavarianrider]

]i vote for a TTT with individual timing.[/color]
strong teams benefit but teams with only 2/3 guys who can stick with their GC Hope not hamstrung.

That's called individual time trial

 

[lancaster]

That's called individual time trial

set them off together so they can ride together.
i'd call it a compromise.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Mountains - you get your own time.

TTT- you get someone elses time.

Simple.

That bit, I agree with. Let's change them so that you only get your own time then. If you drop off the back, tough. If you're Cancellara and you want to leave Andy and the rest to fend for themselves and just ride off into the distance, then you get a better time than the others.

Is that fair now?

 

[Greenflame]

i vote for a TTT with individual timing.
strong teams benefit but teams with only 2/3 guys who can stick with their GC Hope not hamstrung.

That could get interesting: a team like Saxo burning up all their riders one by one before launching Contador to ride the final km alone and win the stage, while half the team finishes outside of the time-limit
But yes, individual times could give some interesting tactics.

For this TT though, people are saying Leopard is very strong. They do, however, have one major problem: Frank Schleck. I can see Andy keeping up with the pace of the rest of their team, but Frank, even if he doesn't have to work, might get into trouble. They'd probably wait for him or just ride slower than possible.
Should Leopard ride all-out and finish just with Andy, Cancellara, O'Grady, Monfort and Posthuma (with Andy just hanging on) while allowing the rest to drop before that, they'd even have a shot at beating HTC and Sky I think. But since they're waiting for Frank I can actually see them losing time.

Sky and Radioshack will gain time here, that won't surprise anyone. My prediction though: At least two out of OPL, Rabo and Liquigas will finish above Leopard.

 

[The Hitch]

That's called individual time trial

I knew this idiotic response was going to come up. I was going to try and get there before Bavarian rider and say "please no one type this idiotic response".

And a predictable poster behind it.

 

[Bavarianrider]

3 man TT would be intersting. Each team has 3 teams a 3 riders

 

[boomcie]

3 man TT would be intersting. Each team has 3 teams a 3 riders

That would indeed be pathetic.

O wait, you said interesting.