TdU 2012: Wilunga Hill "MTF"

[Simply The Best]

Also the terrain in and around Adelaide doesn't allow for any genuine mountains it is simply impossible.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Wow, yes, I can see the posters now:
"The Pro racer Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain."

 

[rgmerk]

we have some good mountains.

This is excellent news.

I mean, nobody was expecting any genuine MOUNTAINS per se (look, if you want to go climb in a January race, you'll be in Argentina).

Eastern Australia, particularly Victoria actually has some pretty respectable climbs. Not enough for a GT, but enough for a pretty good week-long climber's tour. This amateur race, for instance, finishes on an appropriately nasty MTF...

Even if the TDU was shifted to Victoria, it's still never going to go anywhere near the mountains, but it does frustrate me a bit sometimes that Australia *has* some pretty good climbs but we never see the best cyclists on them. FFS, even the local National Road Series doesn't use any of them.

 

[El Pistolero]

Eastern Australia, particularly Victoria actually has some pretty respectable climbs. Not enough for a GT, but enough for a pretty good week-long climber's tour. This amateur race, for instance, finishes on an appropriately nasty MTF...

Even if the TDU was shifted to Victoria, it's still never going to go anywhere near the mountains, but it does frustrate me a bit sometimes that Australia *has* some pretty good climbs but we never see the best cyclists on them. FFS, even the local National Road Series doesn't use any of them.

He's saying no one wants to do a heavy stage race so early in the season. If TDU had serious mountains in it people would just skip it or don't do anything on it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Precisely. That's also why the stages are relatively short. The Tour de San Luís is where anybody who actually wants to do climbing in January goes. The TDU is a glorified training session/pre-season warmup race. It's got a good niche going on. I think making a couple of trickier finishes can only be a good thing - they shouldn't necessarily include TOUGHER climbs than they already have - they should just use them SMARTER. Putting them near stage finishes to derail trains and give the attackers hope, finishing on Willunga to let a different set of riders count themselves into the GC mix - it's sensible.

The race still isn't too tough, but the race becomes more open and gives more people a shot at those early season points. It's still a warmup race, but a better one for the fans and spectators.

 

[auscyclefan94]

If people have a go like Valverde and Evans did in 2009 or to a lesser extent like Bobridge did then it could really make an interesting race. With bonuses and time gaps, a lot of riders could get big enough gaps to win the race. it is long enough imo to shell the sprinters if ridden at a decent tempo.

 

[supercameron]

if they don't want to bring their road bikes, how about a HTT (hill time trial). Something like Norton Summit, I heard that is meant to be a good test for cyclist taking only around 12 minutes

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

if they don't want to bring their road bikes, how about a HTT (hill time trial). Something like Norton Summit, I heard that is meant to be a good test for cyclist taking only around 12 minutes

This race should have a 10K or so time trial. It should be long enough so that sprinters are not guaranteed the overall win.

What is the point of even staging the race if cannot be hard enough to make it a real race? Anyone who does not want to work hard should stay at home. Those who start the season in good form should be rewarded.

 

[Bennyl]

Precisely. That's also why the stages are relatively short. The Tour de San Luís is where anybody who actually wants to do climbing in January goes. The TDU is a glorified training session/pre-season warmup race. It's got a good niche going on. I think making a couple of trickier finishes can only be a good thing - they shouldn't necessarily include TOUGHER climbs than they already have - they should just use them SMARTER. Putting them near stage finishes to derail trains and give the attackers hope, finishing on Willunga to let a different set of riders count themselves into the GC mix - it's sensible.

The race still isn't too tough, but the race becomes more open and gives more people a shot at those early season points. It's still a warmup race, but a better one for the fans and spectators.

Great post - I agree. I think the race is exactly what some of the bigger teams would want and should be left as is. Australia is lucky to get any big names out at that time of year and the nature of the race, warmer climate and points on offer is the only reason it is entertained.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I've always said that the Sun Tour is a better race than the TDU. Sun Tour is going to get 4 to 6 World Tour Teams to the event this year, they are racing over a challenging parcours with a time trial, climbing stage and stages with cross winds. It is actually an interesting race. Wilunga Hill will make things more interesting but will still be a rather mundane race.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Just thought I'd show the Sun Tour route.

Wed 12 Oct Stage 1 Whittlesea to Ballarat Road Race - rolling course with strong winds.

Thu 13 Oct Stage 2 Ballarat to Geelong Road Race - tough clims at the start of the stage with a technical flat finish

Fri 14 Oct Stage 3 Geelong to Bellarine Peninsula Road Race - very windy stage going along the great ocean road.

Sat 15 Oct Stage 4 Sorrento to Arthurs Seat Road Race - Flat start with 3times up a climb around Arthurs seat which is 3km @10%. Final circuit finished on the climb.

Sun 16 Oct Stage 5 Melbourne Circuit Race - criterium


Sun tour you will get strong winds, aggressive racing and a proper climbing stage with 4- 6 pro teams riding against the best local talent. Tour Down Under you will get 5 sprint stages and 1 stage up Wilunga Hill which may cause some attacks but never has and never will split the field on the climb. It doesn't really promote Australian cycling anymore and has become too much about tourism which is evident in the coverage.

You make the choice of what race you'd rather see...

 

[will10]

Just thought I'd show the Sun Tour route.

Wed 12 Oct Stage 1 Whittlesea to Ballarat Road Race - rolling course with strong winds.

Thu 13 Oct Stage 2 Ballarat to Geelong Road Race - tough clims at the start of the stage with a technical flat finish

Fri 14 Oct Stage 3 Geelong to Bellarine Peninsula Road Race - very windy stage going along the great ocean road.

Sat 15 Oct Stage 4 Sorrento to Arthurs Seat Road Race - Flat start with 3times up a climb around Arthurs seat which is 3km @10%. Final circuit finished on the climb.

Sun 16 Oct Stage 5 Melbourne Circuit Race - criterium


Sun tour you will get strong winds, aggressive racing and a proper climbing stage with 4- 6 pro teams riding against the best local talent. Tour Down Under you will get 5 sprint stages and 1 stage up Wilunga Hill which may cause some attacks but never has and never will split the field on the climb. It doesn't really promote Australian cycling anymore and has become too much about tourism which is evident in the coverage.

You make the choice of what race you'd rather see...

Can I choose neither?

 

[hughmoore]

It doesn't really promote Australian cycling anymore and has become too much about tourism which is evident in the coverage.

You make the choice of what race you'd rather see...

Its all about Tourism, thats why the Govt spends the money, its about media Mike also.

Thats why they annouced the stages today instead of next month as normal. Mike Rann is copping flack following the budget and this is a good distraction.


Regards

Hugh

PS: Drove up Willunga on the way to work and confirm by my Garmin, its 3.58km. 4% for first 200 metres, then 6% for next 200 metres, steady 9-10% for next 1.6km, then 8% for last 2km.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Sun Tour

Just thought I'd show the Sun Tour route.

Wed 12 Oct Stage 1 Whittlesea to Ballarat Road Race - rolling course with strong winds.

Thu 13 Oct Stage 2 Ballarat to Geelong Road Race - tough clims at the start of the stage with a technical flat finish

Fri 14 Oct Stage 3 Geelong to Bellarine Peninsula Road Race - very windy stage going along the great ocean road.

Sat 15 Oct Stage 4 Sorrento to Arthurs Seat Road Race - Flat start with 3times up a climb around Arthurs seat which is 3km @10%. Final circuit finished on the climb.

Sun 16 Oct Stage 5 Melbourne Circuit Race - criterium


Sun tour you will get strong winds, aggressive racing and a proper climbing stage with 4- 6 pro teams riding against the best local talent. Tour Down Under you will get 5 sprint stages and 1 stage up Wilunga Hill which may cause some attacks but never has and never will split the field on the climb. It doesn't really promote Australian cycling anymore and has become too much about tourism which is evident in the coverage.

You make the choice of what race you'd rather see...

This is quite positive from the Sun Tour and I'm actually surprised they have done it.

Hopefully they are pro-active with internet streaming etc rather than being at behest of local broadcaster. IE Showcase the event.

Interesting transfer from Bellarine to Sorrento? Ferry?

If they get the response they hope for the progression could be to work in more classic Melbourne routes and get more people road-side.

Kew Blvd
Beach Rd
Dandenongs

Paying a few bucks to pro-tour teams with Aussies on lists to get them out would be better value than a lump sum to some high-profile individual.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Its all about Tourism, thats why the Govt spends the money, its about media Mike also.

Thats why they annouced the stages today instead of next month as normal. Mike Rann is copping flack following the budget and this is a good distraction.

Regards

Hugh

PS: Drove up Willunga on the way to work and confirm by my Garmin, its 3.58km. 4% for first 200 metres, then 6% for next 200 metres, steady 9-10% for next 1.6km, then 8% for last 2km.

Your distances of the gradient sections don't make sense with the total distances. re the tourism, I understand that but when the small 20 minute highlight packages are bombarded with continual tourism ads, it becomes quite frustrating. We also get a lot of pre race interviews which could be left for the cycling central website. After all that there is little left for the actual race.

This is quite positive from the Sun Tour and I'm actually surprised they have done it.

Hopefully they are pro-active with internet streaming etc rather than being at behest of local broadcaster. IE Showcase the event.

Interesting transfer from Bellarine to Sorrento? Ferry?

If they get the response they hope for the progression could be to work in more classic Melbourne routes and get more people road-side.

Kew Blvd
Beach Rd
Dandenongs

Paying a few bucks to pro-tour teams with Aussies on lists to get them out would be better value than a lump sum to some high-profile individual.

Sun Tour always put out a better route than the TDU. They have been talking to some corporates. Jump media helps run the event so I'd imagine that ONE HD/ Channel 10 may be covering the highlights each night but otherwise it will be SBS with some highlights on Cycling Central.

I think the progression with the route, the teams, the event as a whole will help draw a larger crowd.

 

[just some guy]

Your distances of the gradient sections don't make sense with the total distances. re the tourism, I understand that but when the small 20 minute highlight packages are bombarded with continual tourism ads, it becomes quite frustrating. We also get a lot of pre race interviews which could be left for the cycling central website. After all that there is little left for the actual race.



Sun Tour always put out a better route than the TDF. They have been talking to some corporates. Jump media helps run the event so I'd imagine that ONE HD/ Channel 10 may be covering the highlights each night but otherwise it will be SBS with some highlights on Cycling Central.

I think the progression with the route, the teams, the event as a whole will help draw a larger crowd.

Classic

I think you mean Tour DownUnder- TDU.

The Tour De France - TDF

 

[Tuarts]

"It also gave Australian superstars and up and coming talent, including overall winner Cameron Meyer, the chance to shine.”

No it doesn't. You can not say they are up and coming when they already have a ProTour contract.

Invite the strong domestic teams!

 

[valentius borealis]

I see that the Herard Sun Tour is missing the high country again this year. When Stuart O'Grady won it in 2008, they had a MTF at Mt Buller.

 

[auscyclefan94]

No it doesn't. You can not say they are up and coming when they already have a ProTour contract.

Invite the strong domestic teams!

I think they are inviting the strong domestic teams. I think it is a great idea to promote and grow Australian cycling by having some top pro teams with the domestic teams. You don't think riders who have a PT contract aren't up and coming riders? I strongly disagree as they are still growing in their development.

 

[rgmerk]

I see that the Herard Sun Tour is missing the high country again this year. When Stuart O'Grady won it in 2008, they had a MTF at Mt Buller.

That's correct.

The key stage for GC may well be on Saturday, with 3 laps of Arthur's Seat, which is quoted at 10% for 3km but is actually more like 8%.

Actually, not significantly different than Willunga's stats, but 3 times instead of 2 and with a shorter circuit in between, I believe.

Like I said, I wish we could see the good racers on some of our tough longer climbs, but Arthur's Seat is a lot easier for spectators from Melbourne to get to, much easier for TV crews to film, and we'll see the riders multiple times.

 

[auscyclefan94]

That's correct.

The key stage for GC may well be on Saturday, with 3 laps of Arthur's Seat, which is quoted at 10% for 3km but is actually more like 8%.

Actually, not significantly different than Willunga's stats, but 3 times instead of 2 and with a shorter circuit in between, I believe.

Like I said, I wish we could see the good racers on some of our tough longer climbs, but Arthur's Seat is a lot easier for spectators from Melbourne to get to, much easier for TV crews to film, and we'll see the riders multiple times.

The gradient of the Arthurs seat climb is off the Herald Sun Tour site.

EDIT: Cycling profiles says it is 3.25km @ 8%

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I've done the arthur seat challange (run) a few times, it is pretty steep at times. Nice little climb actually.

We should get em to ride bulla at the TDU Not too steep (6%) but pretty long. 15km. OFC would be way too much for warm up race. Some beautiful scenery.
Ahh TDU would own in Vic.
Shame we are so far away from europe and our big races come at unfavourable times.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think I might go down to the Arthurs Seat stage. Should be a lot of fun.

Timmy, we could use Buller (15km @6%), lake mountain (13.7km @5.7%), baw baw (6.6km 11.3%), buffalo (18.2km, 5.5%) and the climb to Dargo (10.6km 8.3%, max 17%) as climbs in the TDU.;p

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

baw baw is apparently pretty hard. I'm not much of a climber, and being only a casual rider I would probably die

Depending on the line up of riders I might head down to arthurs seat stage also, we can have a CN corner

Apparently saddleback mountain in nsw is pretty hard also, maybe craig has ridden it (I think he lives in syd).

 

[valentius borealis]

baw baw is apparently pretty hard. I'm not much of a climber, and being only a casual rider I would probably die

Depending on the line up of riders I might head down to arthurs seat stage also, we can have a CN corner

Apparently saddleback mountain in nsw is pretty hard also, maybe craig has ridden it (I think he lives in syd).

I'd be interested in seeing the profile of Saddleback Mountain. I've heard that there's a section of around 20% right near the top. Another good (albeit short) NSW climb is Baxter's Ridge (listed on climbbybike as Thunderbolt's Way).
In the latter days of the Commonwealth Bank Cycling Classic, they would have a stage to Nowra which would climb Jamberoo Pass followed by the north side of Cambewarra Mountain. They would then climb the south side of Cambawarra Mountain, followed by Barrengarry Mountain on the next stage.