Team Ineos Discussion thread

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It's only the first week, yes Pog is stupidly strong at the moment, but the moment he shows weakness Ineos really need to hammer him. They need a lot of time on him before the ITT. Can it be done? It would be great if they can make a race of it instead of looking at the podium.
 
It was good to see Carapaz giving it a go rather than riding conservatively, but perhaps if he had been less adventurous he may have ended up having a bit more energy when it mattered to gain a bit of time on his podium rivals yesterday. Now that Pogacar has proved to be in a world of his own I guess goals have been recalibrated and he'll adjust tactics accordingly. Won't be easy against Uran, O'Connor and the others, and Uran can put in a good TT as well.
 
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In the 2021 TDF, as of the first rest day, Ineos has wilted like a rose out of water.
That’s pretty much standard practice when they don’t have anyone fighting for the win.

Carapaz has probably been the 2nd strongest so far, but now he needs to be clever to put some time in to his podium challengers, I can’t moan at a rider being aggressive and trying take time when he can, but he’s wasted a lot of energy over the past few days.
 
It's only the first week, yes Pog is stupidly strong at the moment, but the moment he shows weakness Ineos really need to hammer him. They need a lot of time on him before the ITT. Can it be done? It would be great if they can make a race of it instead of looking at the podium.
LOL

Ineos isn’t going to be able to ride Pogacar off their wheel. All that will do is put Carapaz under difficulty.

On paper it’s the strongest team in the race, but right now that strength is useless because they have the same issues as Movistar and EF when it comes to dealing with Pogacar: only one rider is a threat. You have to weaken Pogacar to beat him, which is why Carapaz’s attack was so useless on stage 7. At that point, it should’ve been Porte or Thomas (though he admitted to struggling on the hills) sent up the road, or they should’ve been sacrificed at the start of stage 8. Movistar did the same thing with Lopez. Now none of those riders are a threat to Pogacar.

If you had a Porte, Thomas or a Superman still 5-6 minutes back, it forces UAE to ride because Pogacar isn’t going to let someone like that back into the race like he did with O’Connor. You attack early and often and hope to crack him, and you goad Movistar and EF into playing along. Instead Pogacar destroyed his rivals from a long way out.

Carapaz has tried but 3 attacks in 3 days and not only does he have nothing to show for it against Pogacar, but he gained nothing over his other rivals in the process.

People can point the finger at Movistar for chasing Carapaz down on stage 7, but that’s pointless. Pogacar has destroyed everyone in the mountains. Had Pogacar been forced to bridge the gap himself, I have no doubt he could have,. It may have given Richard a buffer for 2nd place, but that was not in Movistar’s interest. I know it’s a thing to bash Movistar for their dumb tactics, but they aren’t going to work for Ineos. EF was actually the first team to try and organize a pursuit, but they didn’t have the numbers and Movistar did.

So it seems the only way one could hope to put Pogacar under pressure is to attack him early with a solid 2nd option, and then hope the other teams are willing to sacrifice their 2nd rider in contention as well.

The problem as I mentioned earlier is that Ineos seemed more interested in protecting GC and forcing Richie to set the pace to lead out Richard than they were to use one of their leaders as bait. Movistar did the same by protecting a fading Superman, and EF without burning Higuita.

Now all those other options are well out of contention. So that leaves Ineos with the same old Brailsford plan- try and ride everyone off their wheel with the Skytrain. Unfortunately that won’t work with Pogacar.

So now hope for a miracle or a tragedy.
 
LOL

Ineos isn’t going to be able to ride Pogacar off their wheel. All that will do is put Carapaz under difficulty.

On paper it’s the strongest team in the race, but right now that strength is useless because they have the same issues as Movistar and EF when it comes to dealing with Pogacar: only one rider is a threat. You have to weaken Pogacar to beat him, which is why Carapaz’s attack was so useless on stage 7. At that point, it should’ve been Porte or Thomas (though he admitted to struggling on the hills) sent up the road, or they should’ve been sacrificed at the start of stage 8. Movistar did the same thing with Lopez. Now none of those riders are a threat to Pogacar.

If you had a Porte, Thomas or a Superman still 5-6 minutes back, it forces UAE to ride because Pogacar isn’t going to let someone like that back into the race like he did with O’Connor. You attack early and often and hope to crack him, and you goad Movistar and EF into playing along. Instead Pogacar destroyed his rivals from a long way out.

Carapaz has tried but 3 attacks in 3 days and not only does he have nothing to show for it against Pogacar, but he gained nothing over his other rivals in the process.

People can point the finger at Movistar for chasing Carapaz down on stage 7, but that’s pointless. Pogacar has destroyed everyone in the mountains. Had Pogacar been forced to bridge the gap himself, I have no doubt he could have,. It may have given Richard a buffer for 2nd place, but that was not in Movistar’s interest. I know it’s a thing to bash Movistar for their dumb tactics, but they aren’t going to work for Ineos. EF was actually the first team to try and organize a pursuit, but they didn’t have the numbers and Movistar did.

So it seems the only way one could hope to put Pogacar under pressure is to attack him early with a solid 2nd option, and then hope the other teams are willing to sacrifice their 2nd rider in contention as well.

The problem as I mentioned earlier is that Ineos seemed more interested in protecting GC and forcing Richie to set the pace to lead out Richard than they were to use one of their leaders as bait. Movistar did the same by protecting a fading Superman, and EF without burning Higuita.

Now all those other options are well out of contention. So that leaves Ineos with the same old Brailsford plan- try and ride everyone off their wheel with the Skytrain. Unfortunately that won’t work with Pogacar.

So now hope for a miracle or a tragedy.
And that's exactly the reason I'm so sad that Landa and Padun aren't here.
 
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Jul 14, 2019
3
0
1,510
Realisctly

What U think will Ineos to win the Tour in 2022

I think they will Focus a 100% in it and Bring the best Team possible.

They will give Bernal the right Programm and the right Team.

They will Ride the Giro with a b Team

Team should be

Bernal
Carapaz as dom
Thomas as Road captain
Rowe as flat
Kwiato as allround
Sivakov
Yates
Martinez

Back to Train Days, best Team since 2005 T-Mobile, we saw what Lance did to Them.

Im confident Bernal can be the one WHO could climb with Pogi, but TT? Maybe TTT to. Give Bernal some time?
 
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Jan 29, 2021
321
267
1,180
Realisctly

What U think will Ineos to win the Tour in 2022

I think they will Focus a 100% in it and Bring the best Team possible.

They will give Bernal the right Programm and the right Team.

They will Ride the Giro with a b Team

Team should be

Bernal
Carapaz as dom
Thomas as Road captain
Rowe as flat
Kwiato as allround
Sivakov
Yates
Martinez

Back to Train Days, best Team since 2005 T-Mobile, we saw what Lance did to Them.

Im confident Bernal can be the one WHO could climb with Pogi, but TT? Maybe TTT to. Give Bernal some time?
And still will not be enough to beat pogacar. But they will improve. This year Carapaz will end in the second place at 10 of pogacar, bernal have the capacity to be second next year at 5 min of pogacar.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Realisctly

What U think will Ineos to win the Tour in 2022

I think they will Focus a 100% in it and Bring the best Team possible.

They will give Bernal the right Programm and the right Team.

They will Ride the Giro with a b Team

Team should be

Bernal
Carapaz as dom
Thomas as Road captain
Rowe as flat
Kwiato as allround
Sivakov
Yates
Martinez

Back to Train Days, best Team since 2005 T-Mobile, we saw what Lance did to Them.

Im confident Bernal can be the one WHO could climb with Pogi, but TT? Maybe TTT to. Give Bernal some time?
I like your team selection there. It may be a bit of a gamble if crosswinds appear not to have one more powerhouse for the flats like Ganna, but a loaded climbing team is probably the best lineup to try to put UAE under some pressure in the mountain stages.
 
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Realisctly

What U think will Ineos to win the Tour in 2022

I think they will Focus a 100% in it and Bring the best Team possible.

They will give Bernal the right Programm and the right Team.

They will Ride the Giro with a b Team

Team should be

Bernal
Carapaz as dom
Thomas as Road captain
Rowe as flat
Kwiato as allround
Sivakov
Yates
Martinez

Back to Train Days, best Team since 2005 T-Mobile, we saw what Lance did to Them.

Im confident Bernal can be the one WHO could climb with Pogi, but TT? Maybe TTT to. Give Bernal some time?
Think Carapaz and TGH will do the Giro next year while Bernal will be the Tour captain ongoing .
 
LOL

Ineos isn’t going to be able to ride Pogacar off their wheel. All that will do is put Carapaz under difficulty.

On paper it’s the strongest team in the race, but right now that strength is useless because they have the same issues as Movistar and EF when it comes to dealing with Pogacar: only one rider is a threat. You have to weaken Pogacar to beat him, which is why Carapaz’s attack was so useless on stage 7. At that point, it should’ve been Porte or Thomas (though he admitted to struggling on the hills) sent up the road, or they should’ve been sacrificed at the start of stage 8. Movistar did the same thing with Lopez. Now none of those riders are a threat to Pogacar.

If you had a Porte, Thomas or a Superman still 5-6 minutes back, it forces UAE to ride because Pogacar isn’t going to let someone like that back into the race like he did with O’Connor. You attack early and often and hope to crack him, and you goad Movistar and EF into playing along. Instead Pogacar destroyed his rivals from a long way out.

Carapaz has tried but 3 attacks in 3 days and not only does he have nothing to show for it against Pogacar, but he gained nothing over his other rivals in the process.

People can point the finger at Movistar for chasing Carapaz down on stage 7, but that’s pointless. Pogacar has destroyed everyone in the mountains. Had Pogacar been forced to bridge the gap himself, I have no doubt he could have,. It may have given Richard a buffer for 2nd place, but that was not in Movistar’s interest. I know it’s a thing to bash Movistar for their dumb tactics, but they aren’t going to work for Ineos. EF was actually the first team to try and organize a pursuit, but they didn’t have the numbers and Movistar did.

So it seems the only way one could hope to put Pogacar under pressure is to attack him early with a solid 2nd option, and then hope the other teams are willing to sacrifice their 2nd rider in contention as well.

The problem as I mentioned earlier is that Ineos seemed more interested in protecting GC and forcing Richie to set the pace to lead out Richard than they were to use one of their leaders as bait. Movistar did the same by protecting a fading Superman, and EF without burning Higuita.

Now all those other options are well out of contention. So that leaves Ineos with the same old Brailsford plan- try and ride everyone off their wheel with the Skytrain. Unfortunately that won’t work with Pogacar.

So now hope for a miracle or a tragedy.
Obviously Pogacar's team have been underrated and Ineos have had a crap Tour so far with injuries and weird tactics. Not sure what is wrong with Porte but he's not the same rider that won the Dauphine plus he had a few falls. Ineos are really only in a position to get Carapaz on the podium but right now I would rather be in O'Connor's position. Three minutes ahead and now he can ride defensively. Just a matter of how O'Connor handles the final week and the Ventoux stage. Be surprised if he lost most of his time gap to Carapaz and Uran based on current form but it only takes one bad day.
 
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Realisctly

What U think will Ineos to win the Tour in 2022

I think they will Focus a 100% in it and Bring the best Team possible.

They will give Bernal the right Programm and the right Team.

They will Ride the Giro with a b Team

Team should be

Bernal
Carapaz as dom
Thomas as Road captain
Rowe as flat
Kwiato as allround
Sivakov
Yates
Martinez

Back to Train Days, best Team since 2005 T-Mobile, we saw what Lance did to Them.

Im confident Bernal can be the one WHO could climb with Pogi, but TT? Maybe TTT to. Give Bernal some time?
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[/QUOTE]

Bernal should be the leader unless his back is fine. I wrote during the GIro that Ineos had a stronger team there than they were going to send to the tour -- and that's after Sivakov dropped out. Ganna and Martinez were better than Rowe and any climber other than Carapaz. Partly because they rode as a focused unit.

So unless Ganna is contractually obligated to ride in Italy, he should be on the Tour roster.

It's easy to criticize Ineos performance right now, but IMO the only thing that went wrong ahead of the race is that Dennis decided to be Dennis and not to be the rider he was for Hart. A crazy strong Dennis might have made a difference even on stage 8/9.

But...Once the race started everything went wrong, and by stage 7 they were down to a weaker-than-expected Carapaz facing a stronger-than-expected Pogacar. If everything had gone right, we might -- might -- have seen both GT or "Billy" within 3 minutes of Pogacar, with 3 stages plus an ITT left to go. As it is, they are racing for second.
 
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It is a good time for Brailsford to reconsider the team. At this moment he can only count on Carapaz and Bernal for GC for the Tour. Thomas is out. Rowe won't come back to the Tour. Porte can only do 1 week races just like Adam Yates. Need to think about Denis and Martinez next time. Next time was probably too late. How come Castroviejo is still such a good domestique even after doing the Giro and others are missing. I know there are crashes involved but Thomas and Porte were already showing some weakness. Just a thought.
 
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It is a good time for Brailsford to reconsider the team. At this moment he can only count on Carapaz and Bernal for GC for the Tour. Thomas is out. Rowe won't come back to the Tour. Porte can only do 1 week races just like Adam Yates. Need to think about Denis and Martinez next time. Next time was probably too late. How come Castroviejo is still such a good domestique even after doing the Giro and others are missing. I know there are crashes involved but Thomas and Porte were already showing some weakness. Just a thought.
Porte was never intended for GC at a grand tour when they resigned him however he finished 3rd just last year so it's clear he is still capable. I don't get why people think Dennis could do anything on GC.
 
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I would have taken Dennis to this Tour. What is wrong with that?
Porte's opinion was based on what this forum talks about him. Sometimes the forum makes me believe that he has won 5 Tour de France. He had to try 6 years and some luck for the podium to happen. So no, he is not capable anymore.
 

Anybody_but..

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I would have taken Dennis to this Tour. What is wrong with that?
Porte's opinion was based on what this forum talks about him. Sometimes the forum makes me believe that he has won 5 Tour de France. He had to try 6 years and some luck for the podium to happen. So no, he is not capable anymore.
What Dennis you mean? The only one who may be chosen, couldn't be chosen.
 
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I would have taken Dennis to this Tour. What is wrong with that?
Porte's opinion was based on what this forum talks about him. Sometimes the forum makes me believe that he has won 5 Tour de France. He had to try 6 years and some luck for the podium to happen. So no, he is not capable anymore.
Tour de France podiums don't happen unless you are "capable". The opinions on Porte are based upon easily checked facts. Might also be because he has some success against riders of the caliber of Contador in races like PN, saved Froome's Tour win in 2015 (on Alpe D'Huez) and on multiple occasions has dropped the best climbers in the world on HC climbs.

At 36 Porte might very well be in decline but I don't see how you can make you claim about his capability based upon the facts. Valverde is 41! The facts are in the 2020 Tdf Porte finished 3rd , 3rd best climber of that Grand Tour (over three weeks) and peaked in the 3rd week so Porte was "capable" as recently as nine months ago. The 2016 TdF Porte finished 5th. Both times as leader. Surely by the end of last year's Tour the 1 week racer myth was put to rest?

Yes he's riding in support at Ineos but he's obviously sick. Rode better today to sacrifice himself on Ventoux so maybe he's feeling better. As a point of reference compare 36 year old Porte to 27 year old Lopez who is also talked up on this forum. MAL finished even behind Porte today. Who was MAL pulling for today and what's his excuse? Maybe MAL isn't capable?
 
They really miss a Ganna at the Tour. How he was bodyguarding Bernal all Giro long was outstanding.
I'd imagine his main focuses next year will be Classics and Tour. With his power and bike handling, you'd think he could be a real force at Roubaix. And a rider of his ability really should be at the Tour, and it's hardly like he has unfinished business at the Giro.
 
Jul 7, 2021
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The make-up of the whole team was off. All the talk about having 4 guys in the top 10 challenging Roglic and Pogacar with multiple attacks was already off the table by stage 1.
Sure, G crashed hard and is showing age, Porte is also already 36 and was maybe a little overrated based on last year's podium, but what happened to Tao Hart? I think a crashed a bit on stage 1, but there was never much talk about and he does not appear to be hurt. If you told me that he won a GT as recently as last year, Iwould not believe it. He might be the most useless guy on the whole team. He managed today like 1 or 2 pulls at the entry to the climb and than he was spent. Sure, the field of last year's Giro was rather weak, but at least he beat guys like Kelderman and Almeida and here he looks like he does not belong. Any explanations?
 
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Some rubbish talked about Ineos riders on here when bad luck and bad decision making is at thee heart of their Tour this year
plus th fact that no team can go man o man with Pogacar so far

also we are only half way thru the Tour ...alot of riding to do yet
if Thomas and Porte can rally and get abit better they will factor yet
Will miss Rowe in possible cross winds
 

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