Team Ineos Discussion thread

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.

 

[Jagartrott]

His racism time-out probably gave him food for thought, and he decided he should become a climber instead of a cobblestone rider. Or both.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.

Certainly those watching him in the Tour de l'Avenir could easily imagine him as a pretty decent climber.

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?

Not in the same season, but Wiggins has top-10 in both.

 

[jsem94]

This Vuelta showcased the value of a super team more than ever before. Froome would have had it much more difficult if he didn't have guys around him constantly. What a team, ridiculous.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?

Not in the same season, but Wiggins has top-10 in both.

Ofcourse I've meant same season. There are plenty of historic greats who even have GT wins and Roubaix wins.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?

Thomas for instance, in recents times, and in the past lot of people, but of course is amazing, specially in a young rider.

I agree with Contador there should be a limit of budget for teams. SKY has his merit outside budget to be so strong, but a big part is budget and this is bad for cycling.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.

Certainly those watching him in the Tour de l'Avenir could easily imagine him as a pretty decent climber.

Watching him lose almost twenty five minutes in La Toussuire?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.

It's funny, yes, Froome's team is strong and often the strongest on paper at the Tour at this Vuelta, but he rarely has everything go to plan. Thomas inevitably crashes or gets attempted-murdered by Barguil, and at least one of their team goes AWOL for an entire GT (Koenig and Kennaugh 2015 Tour, Henao 2017 Tour).

This Vuelta, you rarely saw Moscon do a long pull, then Lopez, then Rosa, then Nieve, then Poels, then Froome attack, which is the classic Skytrain tactic. Instead Moscon was, like Kwiatkowski at the Tour, performing better in the mountains than he was probably supposed to, Nieve and Poels essentially swapped their level after the second rest day (as you would expect when one did the Tour and the other hadn't), and they never had all of Nieve, Lopez, Rosa and Poels with Froome at the same time - which meant Moscon needed to be better than expected at climbing and maybe the Vuelta would have gone differently if he hadn't been. Two of the true climbers were always dropped when it mattered.

I suppose I'm trying to say, Sky throw 8 great helpers at their teams. The 2-3 flat/rouleur guys rarely put a foot wrong, but the 5-6 climbers are rarely all good at the same time.

1. you'd think Sky with all their alleged sports science would work out to have Poels AND Nieve AND Rosa AND Lopez being at their best level during the same three weeks.

2. if they do ever crack that formula imagine how scary they'll be.

They had Froome, Poels, Nieve, Moscon, Rosa and Lopez all together today in a group of 13 so I'm pretty sure they are all good here. Only Pellizzotti, Nibali, Zakarin, Kelderman, Woods, Kruijswijk and Carapaz were left. That is incredible strength if you ask me.

It's baffling to me that this even has to be stated.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?

I can a!most guarantee that we haven't especially as his was the result of riding with elite the entire stage and not from a break. It's quite extraordinary.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.

Certainly those watching him in the Tour de l'Avenir could easily imagine him as a pretty decent climber.

Just decent climbers don't finish 13th on the Angliru unless given latitude from being in a break that was let go.

 

[TMP402]

 

[wwabbit]

The King in the North sits at the head of the table

 

[Singer01]

Strong TTT team, Froome, Thomas, Doull, Moscon, Kwiat, Kiri. Should be one of the top 3 favourites.

 

[telencefalus]

why they didn't go for the team gc in la vuelta they could have won it easly Froome , was doing great even without a strong team , unlike to the tour, there Froome could have lost without team see stage 13

 

[jsem94]

Because no one cares about the Team Classification unless you happen to be in it by the end of the race by accident.

 

[telencefalus]

NO ONE CARES i don't get it winning back to back team classification was done few times i don't know maybe never so if happened it will put team sky in the legend of cycling , that's for stats of course

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nobody cares about the Team Classification unless:

- They have nobody positioned to contest the individual classifications but several good riders with little else to target
- They find themselves up near the top of the classification in the second half of the race thanks to stagehunting and want to protect this
- They are Eusebio Unzué.

 

[janraaskalt]

Re:

Nobody cares about the Team Classification unless:

- They have nobody positioned to contest the individual classifications but several good riders with little else to target
- They find themselves up near the top of the classification in the second half of the race thanks to stagehunting and want to protect this
- They are Eusebio Unzué.

Maybe sponsors like it, to be able to say: "Sponsor X: best team in Grand Tour Y 2017!"

 

[deValtos]

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm looking forward to seeing Van Baarle shredding the field on Alpe d'Heuz next year.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm looking forward to seeing Van Baarle shredding the field on Alpe d'Heuz next year.

How is that any different from some other unlikely Sky rider climbing like the second coming of Bahamontes, dropping gc contenders? Nah, I ain't looking forward to that.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-report-budget-of-31-million-in-2016/

The accounts note that Sky's average number of full-time employees in 2016 was 33 (up from 29 in 2015), though it is understood that many of its riders are paid as contractors rather than as full-time employees.

Easier to fire if needs be?

 

[Pharazon]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-report-budget-of-31-million-in-2016/

The accounts note that Sky's average number of full-time employees in 2016 was 33 (up from 29 in 2015), though it is understood that many of its riders are paid as contractors rather than as full-time employees.

Easier to fire if needs be?

tax reasons

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-report-budget-of-31-million-in-2016/

The accounts note that Sky's average number of full-time employees in 2016 was 33 (up from 29 in 2015), though it is understood that many of its riders are paid as contractors rather than as full-time employees.

Easier to fire if needs be?

tax reasons

Doesn't it mean they are pretty much self employed?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm looking forward to seeing Van Baarle shredding the field on Alpe d'Heuz next year.

Given the fact he showed slight climbing potential in his u23 period in races like thuringer rundfahrt, with the sky transformation he is sure to drop at least 95% of the pack :lol: