Team Ineos Discussion thread

[Pricey_sky]

Pretty crazy for a pure stage racing team to outdo Quick Step and shows how Ineos is above everyone else. Budget cap please now, thank you.

Its not going to happen, teams would always find way around it such as ‘special’ bonuses, incentives or sponsorships with equipment suppliers, which have all been used in the past over varying degrees.

It would be an absolute nightmare to police.

 

[Bolder]

so, who will beat Pogacar ? I mean the guy is 22 and I could defintely imagine him being as dominant as they guys you mentioned, absolutely no weakness in his game. He also won last year without a team, dont know the last time that has happened

All true, but had he ridden a less remarkable TT and Roglic ridden a better one, we'd have him as second favorite. I'm just saying he might not be unbeatable. I could see him overextended if Ineos has three riders in the Top 10 at some point.

 

[jarvo]

Also Roglic isn't racing until the tour, his prep is somewhat unorthodox this year, so who knows he will perform this year without any racing for 2 months?

 

[bob.a.feet]

An alternative reality view: Roglic is crash prone; Pogacar only won the Tour last year with an otherworldly final TT after Roglic took a smallish lead by grabbing bonus seconds and with late attacks. Plus Bernal was hurt. These guys are strong but not unbeatable in GTs.

I don't see the same kind of dominant performances as LA or CF.

If Pogacar had any of Froome's teams from 2013 and 2015-17, he would have probably won quite comfortably. In fact, he won quite comfortably anyway - with Jan Polanc as his biggest help in the mountains.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Speaking about the Tour there are two main favourites: #1 is Pogacar and #2 is Roglic. Any other winner would be a surprise.
That being said Ineos has a lot of strong cards to play and can make the race interesting. If anyone can beat the Slovenians, it's them.

 

[BlueRoads]

Its not going to happen, teams would always find way around it such as ‘special’ bonuses, incentives or sponsorships with equipment suppliers, which have all been used in the past over varying degrees.

It would be an absolute nightmare to police.

Unfortunately I can't think of any way to do it, but I'm not sure enough thoughts by specialists have been put into this. Maybe there is a way after all, it just can't be a "simple" salary cap. I know nothing about finances and law, but maybe there could be a way of having a certain volume of money, something like a turnover, in which all money the team uses in any way, is counted, which is not allowed to be excelled. And all sponsorships of the team or riders of the team have to be declared. It would probably require major changes in the whole system, like the status of the riders regarding labour legislation and so on... But it might be worth it.

For now it looks like UAE might challenge them in the next years, and although I am not a fan of UAE at all, that might still bring something good to this messy system.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Unfortunately I can't think of any way to do it, but I'm not sure enough thoughts by specialists have been put into this. Maybe there is a way after all, it just can't be a "simple" salary cap. I know nothing about finances and law, but maybe there could be a way of having a certain volume of money, something like a turnover, in which all money the team uses in any way, is counted, which is not allowed to be excelled. And all sponsorships of the team or riders of the team have to be declared. It would probably require major changes in the whole system, like the status of the riders regarding labour legislation and so on... But it might be worth it.

For now it looks like UAE might challenge them in the next years, and although I am not a fan of UAE at all, that might still bring something good to this messy system.

Budget caps are desirable but the whole international structure of the sport, combined with the ever growing tendency for teams to be the playthings of oligarchs or sportswashing endeavours for horrible regimes makes it pretty much impossible to conceive of a viable way to enforce almost any controls.

The entire recent history of football demonstrates that even where teams are large stable institutions based in the same country as their leagues, they can easily evade financial controls. Good luck to the UCI stopping the oligarch or princeling from one country who owns a team that can fold at any moment based in a second country but registered in a third from funnelling cash to a rider from a fourth country, domiciled in a fifth pretend country that exists only to enable tax evasion like Monaco.

 

[Bolder]

If Pogacar had any of Froome's teams from 2013 and 2015-17, he would have probably won quite comfortably. In fact, he won quite comfortably anyway - with Jan Polanc as his biggest help in the mountains.

Oh, I agree 100% with your first sentence. But he still won't have a Tour team that's close to Ineos's or even JV. Ineos is going to send a team with 3 GC winners and a podium finisher in Porte; JV will send 2 plus a podium finisher in SK...UAE will send...McNulty.

I disagree that he won "comfortably," however. Clawing back a minute plus on a final ITT -- that was unexpectedly amazing, and Roglic was disappointing.

A "comfortable" GT win is Froome in 2016, or even Thomas in 2018.

(To be clear, I wouldn't bet on anyone other than Pog or Rog to win any GT they enter at this point, but I think if you dig down a bit they aren't yet the GC winning-margin monsters that we've seen in recent decades.)

 

[Anderis]

He also won last year without a team, dont know the last time that has happened

Evans in 2011.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Evans in 2011.

Evans didnt have any team in the mountains really, but you could argue his team was the best on the flat/hilly days which meant a lot that Tour. It was really gritty the two first weeks - bad weather, wind etc., and he managed to stay out of all trouble always being at the front.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Oh, I agree 100% with your first sentence. But he still won't have a Tour team that's close to Ineos's or even JV. Ineos is going to send a team with 3 GC winners and a podium finisher in Porte; JV will send 2 plus a podium finisher in SK...UAE will send...McNulty.

I disagree that he won "comfortably," however. Clawing back a minute plus on a final ITT -- that was unexpectedly amazing, and Roglic was disappointing.

A "comfortable" GT win is Froome in 2016, or even Thomas in 2018.

(To be clear, I wouldn't bet on anyone other than Pog or Rog to win any GT they enter at this point, but I think if you dig down a bit they aren't yet the GC winning-margin monsters that we've seen in recent decades.)

He put in two incredible performances last year - stage 20 TT and Peyresourde, the former being one of the most dominant displays in recent Tour history. He also won two more stages. Individually, that's on par with Froome.

I think it's a case of UAE not being GC winning-margin monsters yet, because their leader certainly looks to be.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't think the problem is Pogacar being great. The big difference for this year is:

• Not going under the radar and
• Not having a great team.

I don't care if your name is Pogacar, if don't have a good team he can be dispatched in a simple cross wind stage!

 

[topt]

I don't think the problem is Pogacar being great. The big difference for this year is:

• Not going under the radar and
• Not having a great team.

I don't care if your name is Pogacar, if don't have a good team he can be dispatched in a simple cross wind stage!

he was and still won

 

[Eeslliw]

he was and still won

You are right. But they put what 1:30 on him that stage? If same happens this year they go all out if he stays behind and put 5+ minutes. Whoever is in front group will work to distance him. I bet if Roglic and Thomas, Carapaz are ahead, Ineos and Jumbo will work together. I would go that far that splits are biggest threat for Pogacar this year. UAE will really have to be alert all the time.

 

[Pinot's goat]

You are right. But they put what 1:30 on him that stage? If same happens this year they go all out if he stays behind and put 5+ minutes. Whoever is in front group will work to distance him. I bet if Roglic and Thomas, Carapaz are ahead, Ineos and Jumbo will work together. I would go that far that splits are biggest threat for Pogacar this year. UAE will really have to be alert all the time.

Pogacar crashed just before the echelons so was at the back, otherwise he would have been fine and they always go all out when there are echelons, there was not enough kms left to put more time into him.

 

[Froome]

It doesn't matter that much have the strongest team when you don't have the best gc rider on that team. Ineos can't do nothing against the slovenians, because they can't follow them in normal conditions. And even if ineos control the slovenians in the mountains with the train, it doesn't matter, because on the itts they also smash the leaders of ineos.

 

[lenric]

Evans didnt have any team in the mountains really, but you could argue his team was the best on the flat/hilly days which meant a lot that Tour. It was really gritty the two first weeks - bad weather, wind etc., and he managed to stay out of all trouble always being at the front.

well, I think Morabito was useful to him in the mountains

 

[BigCoward]

It doesn't matter that much have the strongest team when you don't have the best gc rider on that team. Ineos can't do nothing against the slovenians, because they can't follow them in normal conditions. And even if ineos control the slovenians in the mountains with the train, it doesn't matter, because on the itts they also smash the leaders of ineos.

Neither Roglic or Pog have proven themselves to be any better at GC TT than G. To suggest they have is absolute nonsense.

 

[Pricey_sky]

It doesn't matter that much have the strongest team when you don't have the best gc rider on that team. Ineos can't do nothing against the slovenians, because they can't follow them in normal conditions. And even if ineos control the slovenians in the mountains with the train, it doesn't matter, because on the itts they also smash the leaders of ineos.

So they can do ‘something’ then?

As the poster above said, Thomas is more than capable of being close to them in the TT’s, the question for him is can he a.) stay with them uphill and b.) stay on his bike for 3 weeks.

 

[Froome]

Neither Roglic or Pog have proven themselves to be any better at GC TT than G. To suggest they have is absolute nonsense.

So they can do ‘something’ then?

As the poster above said, Thomas is more than capable of being close to them in the TT’s, the question for him is can he a.) stay with them uphill and b.) stay on his bike for 3 weeks.

Do you really think thomas could beat pogi on the last itt of tour 2020?
Pogi already beat thomas on the itt of tirreno adriatico 2021, and like i said, he can't do the numbers that pogi does on the mountains and on the itts like the itt of last year's tour.
Roglic even in 2018 and 2019 when he wasn't so good than he is now, beat many times thomas on the itts, imagine now that he is so much better rider, and not so much a sky jumper. Roglic since 2020 won a lot of itts.
The leader of ineos will be carapaz, that's ineos best gc rider for the tour.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

The leader of ineos will be carapaz, that's ineos best gc rider for the tour.

I agree but Thomas will go all out to do a brilliant ITT and play the Brit-card in the media to claim sole leadership.
Then again Porte might post the best time but in any case I expect Carapaz will be the slowest of the three in the first ITT.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Do you really think thomas could beat pogi on the last itt of tour 2020?
Pogi already beat thomas on the itt of tirreno adriatico 2021, and like i said, he can't do the numbers that pogi does on the mountains and on the itts like the itt of last year's tour.
Roglic even in 2018 and 2019 when he wasn't so good than he is now, beat many times thomas on the itts, imagine now that he is so much better rider, and not so much a sky jumper. Roglic since 2020 won a lot of itts.
The leader of ineos will be carapaz, that's ineos best gc rider for the tour.

There is not LPDBF in the ITT this time, on a flat ITT Thomas should beat the Slovenians but the time gains will be negligible.

 

[Froome]

Po

There is not LPDBF in the ITT this time, on a flat ITT Thomas should beat the Slovenians but the time gains will be negligible.

Pogi beat thomas this year on tirreno's Adriatico flat itt. There's no indications that thomas can beat pogi in a itt. And on last year's tour de france itt, until the beginning of lpbf, pogi was the fastest in the flat section.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Po

Pogi beat thomas this year on tirreno's Adriatico flat itt. There's no indications that thomas can beat pogi in a itt. And on last year's tour de france itt, until the beginning of lpbf, pogi was the fastest in the flat section.

Thomas was not close to top form at this point and was out of GC contention, Pogacar was in the opposite situation.

 

[Froome]

Thomas was not close to top form at this point and was out of GC contention, Pogacar was in the opposite situation.

It's difficult to say if pogi was in his best possible shape, he is always in good shape in all races.