Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[timmers]

Fair enough - although showing evidence of his track pursuit success, as our esteemed fellow poster did above, is a bit weak...whatever about Junior Paris Roubaix success...

Regarding Wiggins...his career performance trajectory is like a mountain stage profile...strange for a 'clean' rider.

Only if you think that track results mean nothing. Some including me think it is an indicator of ability.

 

[achenk]

yes it looks like they need regeneration

 

[Digger]

Only if you think that track results mean nothing. Some including me think it is an indicator of ability.

Based on what or who?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Based on what or who?

There's at least 200 riders in each race, just like the Tour. So not only is the talent pool as rich and diverse, but people dedicate all their training and preparation for those track events of note.

Or not.

 

[Digger]

There's at least 200 riders in each race, just like the Tour. So not only is the talent pool as rich and diverse, but people dedicate all their training and preparation for those track events of note.

Or not.

As rich or diverse!

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Based on what or who?

I would say that Chris Boardman' road career was a fairly natural progression from a track rider. Do you think he was doping?

 

[SundayRider]

Only if you think that track results mean nothing. Some including me think it is an indicator of ability.

Only really UK, Australia and France that take track seriously.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Only really UK, Australia and France that take track seriously.

Germany?

What are you basing that on? Which countries are the most successful?

 

[Netserk]

I would say that Chris Boardman' road career was a fairly natural progression from a track rider. Do you think he was doping?

I think he was doping. Do you think he was clean?

 

[SundayRider]

Germany?

What are you basing that on? Which countries are the most successful?

Just the countries I mainly associate with track racing. The traditional road countries big talents rarely if ever come from track background.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I think he was doping. Do you think he was clean?

I think he was. As I said I think his career progression was pretty logical.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Just the countries I mainly associate with track racing. The traditional road countries big talents rarely if ever come from track background.

It probably helps if you can get significant funding albeit you can argue
how that funding is used.

Out of curiosity what is the pool of countries you associate with road racing?

 

[SundayRider]

It probably helps if you can get significant funding albeit you can argue
how that funding is used.

Out of curiosity what is the pool of countries you associate with road racing?

Traditionally I'd - Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland. You could argue it's very different nowadays though.

 

[lllludo]

Geraint l'aigle de Cardiff

Not looking to derail the forum harmony.
I only posted the info to give some factual context to show that Thomas was successfully splitting his time between the boards and the tarmac, while at Barloworld.
However, you do seem to be getting confused over what is normally considered classics/mountains parcour.
The Cote de Mont Brouilly, (yesterday's climb) being 3kms at 8% would normally be considered to fall into the former (Ardennes), not the latter (Alps) category.

Thomas did an impressive job pacing the group on the last "hill" yesterday, chasing Betancur and counter-attacking behind Slagter. What Skybots don't get is that it's not just the results or the terrain but how they were achieved.
Yesterday's display is for sure the sign of bigger things to come.
Last year during the Dauphine he led a select group during most of the 10km Col du Noyer chasing and reeling in Purito and Valv while dropping Nieve or Dennis.
During the Tour 2011, he was just a decent climber at 71kg, and during the Dauphine 2013 he shed just 1kg but had become a superior climber.
In an interview with ridemedia.com Thomas explains he's lost more weight (now 69) while he still improves his threshold so why not aiming at the Tour like Bradley in the future. Seriously.
So the guy is becoming a climber and, as I bet he's not losing his TT ability, he will become very soon another GT contender for SKY.
Just in case something goes wrong before the Tour de France....

 

[lllludo]

I would say that Chris Boardman' road career was a fairly natural progression from a track rider. Do you think he was doping?

Boardman was named as a doper by Gaumont in his book. When Gaumont arrived at GAN in 1996 he said Boardman was using "top of the art doping techniques".
Vaughters also once said he doubted Boardman could have achieved his results at Paris-Nice in 1996 clean.
But wait if Boardman was doping, did his coach Peter Keen knew at the time ?
Weren't Keen and Boardman the guys who brought Brailsford on board ?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Traditionally I'd - Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland. You could argue it's very different nowadays though.

So while, sure, there a a lot more people that take up road racing than track racing the pool of countries is not that much greater esp. if you were to take population into account.

Now I am not arguing that track cycling is anywhere near as popular as road racing but it is significant enough that you will get some successful riders out of it. Australia also have a fair amount of talent coming from the track.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Boardman was named as a doper by Gaumont in his book. When Gaumont arrived at GAN in 1996 he said Boardman was using "top of the art doping techniques".
Vaughters also once said he doubted Boardman could have achieved his results at Paris-Nice in 1996 clean.
But wait if Boardman was doping, did his coach Peter Keen knew at the time ?
Weren't Keen and Boardman the guys who brought Brailsford on board ?

What is the name of that book and do you have a link to Vaughters's saying this?

edit. I found the book title (Prisonnier du dopage ) but I have not seen any reference to the events you describe. Sounds interesting though. I will give it a read.

 

[King Boonen]

So why hasn't Rogers blown the whistle yet?

 

[jens_attacks]

boardman clean

paris nice 1996, the peak of jetfuel
1. Laurent Jalabert (Fr, ONCE) 34.28.14
2. Lance Armstrong (USA, M otorola) + 0.43 secs
3. Chris Boardman (GB, GAN) + 0.47
4. Franck Vandenbroucke (Bel, Mapei-GB) + 1.21
5. Laurent Brochard (Fr, Festina) + 1.36
6. Inigo Cuesta (Sp, ONCE) + 2.17
7,. Luc Leblanc (Fr, Team Polti) + 2.18
8. Andrei Tchmil (Rus, Lotto) + 2.48
9. Laurent Madouas (Fr, Motorola) + 3.17
10. Andrea Peron (It, Motorola) + 3.31


dauphine 1995
1 Miguel Indurain (Banesto - Pinarello) SPA 28h51'32''
2 Chris Boardman (Gan - Merckx) GBR 2'21''
3 Vicente Aparicio Vila (Banesto - Pinarello) SPA 3'39''
4 Richard Virenque (Festina - Lotus) FRA 3'54''
5 Jean-Cyril Robin (Festina - Lotus) FRA 4'06''
6 Carmelo Miranda Gonzalez (Banesto - Pinarello) SPA 6'43''
7 Miguel Arroyo Rosales (Chazal - MBK - Koenig) MEX 7'21''
8 Alvaro Mejia Castrillon (Motorola) COL 8'20''
9 Andrea Peron (Motorola) ITA 9'22''
10 Thierry Laurent (Castorama) FRA s.t.


we're talking here about hematocrits around 60% stuff not LBL 2013. vaughters already said his opinion on boardman's magical watts on the record hour...keep dreaming though, he might have been clean.like the norwegian skiers in the same period of time lol

 

[Digger]

I would say that Chris Boardman' road career was a fairly natural progression from a track rider. Do you think he was doping?

Yes.....he was named by Gaumount as having taken EPO

Poster on the previous page has addressed it i see.

Anyway no way in the world could he havehad his success in this period, with 60% HCT without doping. No way.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Yes.....he was named by Gaumount as having taken EPO

Poster on the previous page has addressed it i see.

Anyway no way in the world could he havehad his success in this period, with 60% HCT without doping. No way.

Would seem odd then that he would apply for an exemption for Testosterone if he was freely using EPO.

 

[RownhamHill]

boardman clean

paris nice 1996, the peak of jetfuel
1. Laurent Jalabert (Fr, ONCE) 34.28.14
2. Lance Armstrong (USA, M otorola) + 0.43 secs
3. Chris Boardman (GB, GAN) + 0.47
4. Franck Vandenbroucke (Bel, Mapei-GB) + 1.21
5. Laurent Brochard (Fr, Festina) + 1.36
6. Inigo Cuesta (Sp, ONCE) + 2.17
7,. Luc Leblanc (Fr, Team Polti) + 2.18
8. Andrei Tchmil (Rus, Lotto) + 2.48
9. Laurent Madouas (Fr, Motorola) + 3.17
10. Andrea Peron (It, Motorola) + 3.31


dauphine 1995
1 Miguel Indurain (Banesto - Pinarello) SPA 28h51'32''
2 Chris Boardman (Gan - Merckx) GBR 2'21''
3 Vicente Aparicio Vila (Banesto - Pinarello) SPA 3'39''
4 Richard Virenque (Festina - Lotus) FRA 3'54''
5 Jean-Cyril Robin (Festina - Lotus) FRA 4'06''
6 Carmelo Miranda Gonzalez (Banesto - Pinarello) SPA 6'43''
7 Miguel Arroyo Rosales (Chazal - MBK - Koenig) MEX 7'21''
8 Alvaro Mejia Castrillon (Motorola) COL 8'20''
9 Andrea Peron (Motorola) ITA 9'22''
10 Thierry Laurent (Castorama) FRA s.t.


we're talking here about hematocrits around 60% stuff not LBL 2013. vaughters already said his opinion on boardman's magical watts on the record hour...keep dreaming though, he might have been clean.like the norwegian skiers in the same period of time lol

The question isn't whether Boardman was doping though, is it?

The question is more like whether he had any ability on the road, and whether his previous success on the track might have been an indicator of that ability.

 

[RownhamHill]

Would seem odd then that he would apply for an exemption for Testosterone if he was freely using EPO.

Surely at the time there was a test for Testosterone but not EPO? So I woulnd't think it was that odd that you might worry about an exemption for the former but not the latter. . .

 

[Cyivel]

What is the name of that book and do you have a link to Vaughters's saying this?

edit. I found the book title (Prisonnier du dopage ) but I have not seen any reference to the events you describe. Sounds interesting though. I will give it a read.

I think this is the Vaughters thing, it's a link to the whole thread but if you read it you'll see his comments.

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/359787243373723650

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I think this is the Vaughters thing, it's a link to the whole thread but if you read it you'll see his comments.

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/359787243373723650

Thanks. I will give it a read and then maybe move conversation to a more relevant thread so as not to go too off-topic.