Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[martinvickers]

All SOL martinvickers, you are welcome. Lets keep to the facts is your narrative or not?

Sorry, SOL? What's that got to do with anything? You seem to be mixing up whether there is a positive test (Yes) with whether his ghost should now face charges on the foot of that (clearly No)

But nobody's charging Pantani, or trying to.

You asked for the positives, rather disingenuously. You got them.

He had one suspension while alive, and three positive tests posthumously.

It can therefore be safely said, he was a doper. It's not conjecture or conspiracy theory whackiness.

For the record, we have positives and confessions from Fignon, and clear physical evidence of doping from Simpson.

If you can't see the difference, it's because you don't want to. Or pretending not to.

 

[Mellow Velo]

This whole thing is an important discussion on a broader sense...tom simpson good...Richard virenque bad in the eyes of sky...because one is dead?

I'm pretty sure you made that up...............again.
Unless you have a link, of course.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Where there any B-samples? Due process?

Nice one. Straight out of the Polish and Flicker handbook.

 

[Digger]

I'm pretty sure you made that up...............again.
Unless you have a link, of course.

Rod Ellingworth tore out the page of Vrienque from the tour handbook in disgust, according to walsh...

You're welcome...

Sorry digger you were correct...again

 

[martinvickers]

Rod Ellingworth tore out the page of Vrienque from the tour handbook in disgust, according to walsh...

You're welcome...

Sorry digger you were correct...again

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Simpson, Digger.

Try again.

 

[Afrank]

Why? If not in the team Sky thread, where should we discuss the death of Txema and the (perhaps doping) cause of it?

Discussion of Txema's death is rather tasteless and disrespectful to the dead. Plus it's pretty much based on a conspiracy. Further, I foresee such a discussion bringing up future problems and unnecessary conflicts between posters that could lead to bans. I don't think we need that.

So let's all just leave this one alone.

 

[Digger]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Simpson, Digger.

Try again.

Tom Simpson was mentioned in that book as a source of inspiration to Ellingworth...

Wiggins has spoken numerous times about his admiration for Simpson...so why is one good and the other bad in their eyes?

 

[Digger]

This thread is like a microcosm of the attitude to some dopers anyway...dope is bad...dope and die you become a hero.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Sorry, SOL? What's that got to do with anything? You seem to be mixing up whether there is a positive test (Yes) with whether his ghost should now face charges on the foot of that (clearly No)

A and B sample?

Lets get judicial marty.

 

[del1962]

This whole thing is an important discussion on a broader sense...tom simpson good...Richard virenque bad in the eyes of sky...because one is dead?

So we have one employees views on Virenque, do you know the same employees views on Simpson?

OK i have seen tour reply now

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Discussion of Txema's death is rather tasteless and disrespectful to the dead. Plus it's pretty much based on a conspiracy. Further, I foresee such a discussion bringing up future problems and unnecessary conflicts between posters that could lead to bans. I don't think we need that.

So let's all just leave this one alone.

My thoughts exactly, but far more eloquently expressed.

 

[Afrank]

Let's also move any Pantani discussions to the Pantani thread, I assume there is one somewhere.

 

[Digger]

So we have one employees views on Virenque, do you know the same employees views on Simpson?

Yes also in the book...

And we also have Wiggins lauding Simpson, whilst vilifying Ricco and Landis,

 

[lllludo]

I'm pretty sure you made that up...............again.
Unless you have a link, of course.

It's in David Walsh "Inside team Sky" and Ellingworth "Project Rainbow" books. Walsh explain that Ellingwoth despise doping icon Vienque and teared the pages with commercials of Richard Virenque on the Tour 2013 official guide book.
On the other hand Ellingworth has borrowed what he called the relics, Simpson's rainbow jersey, to build up the UK team before the Copenhague WC in 2011. More generally Simpson is an icon for UK Cycling and is on the hall of fame of BCF.
You should buy the books they are very nice tales

 

[Digger]

It's in David Walsh "Inside team Sky" and Ellingworth "Project Rainbow" books. Walsh explain that Ellingwoth despise doping icon Vienque and teared the pages with commercials of Richard Virenque on the Tour 2013 official guide book.
On the other hand Ellingworth has borrowed what he called the relics, Simpson's rainbow jersey, to build up the UK team before the Copenhague WC in 2011. More generally Simpson is an icon for UK Cycling and is on the hall of fame of BCF.
You should buy the books they are very nice tales

Mellow - yes Digger you were correct. I apologise.

No worries Mellow, but you need to read more.

I will do Digger. Sorry again.

 

[martinvickers]

A and B sample?

Lets get judicial marty.

Let's stop trolling, Fearless.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Mellow - yes Digger you were correct. I apologise.

No worries Mellow, but you need to read more.

I will do Digger. Sorry again.

So, when you wrote Sky, you meant Ellingworth?
Pretty sure he doesn't constitute a majority.

However, I agree that Ellingworth's attitude is wrong.
Simpson may have rode at a time where anti doping was embryonic,
but I'm pretty sure he would have turned up early to jump on the epo bandwagon.

Better to dislike Virenque over his crocodile tears in 1998.

As for reading Walsh's book: No thanks. That material is only fit for Sky fans.

 

[Mellow Velo]

This thread is like a microcosm of the attitude to some dopers anyway...dope is bad...dope and die you become a hero.

There is more than a grain of truth in this.

 

[The Hitch]

Tom Simpson was mentioned in that book as a source of inspiration to Ellingworth...

Wiggins has spoken numerous times about his admiration for Simpson...so why is one good and the other bad in their eyes?

Tbf Wiggins (since 2009) has admired all dopers. Simpson, Vinokourov, Basso, Pantani, Armstrong.

 

[Digger]

Lance should fake his own death. It's the way to redemption.

David Millar lauds Simpson. Wiggins and ellingworth the same.
There's a monument to the guy.

Not one difference between Tom Simpson and ricco. Or kohl. Other than being dead.
Jesus manzano. He nearly died. Anyone remember him? At least he actually told all the truth.
Pantani the same. The way people fawned over him
Two months ago. Yet if he was alive he'd be a pariah. As things stand you'd think he was as good as coppi

 

[roundabout]

Yeh don't forget we had Dupont down as the Giro winner after Trentino in 2012

Best R.A.G.T. rider of all time.

 

[Digger]

Tbf Wiggins (since 2009) has admired all dopers. Simpson, Vinokourov, Basso, Pantani.

Yea. When wiggins wasn't good he was very anti doping. Calling out guys like Moreni. When he became a contender he started supporting dopers. Strange coincidence.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Let's stop trolling, Fearless.

You know I am right martin. No worries, I will stop correcting you guys on your inconsistencies.

Wink.

 

[Netserk]

1) Discussion of Txema's death is rather tasteless and disrespectful to the dead. 2) Plus it's pretty much based on a conspiracy. 3) Further, I foresee such a discussion bringing up future problems and unnecessary conflicts between posters that could lead to bans. I don't think we need that.

So let's all just leave this one alone.

1) Just like the discussion regarding Thatcher after her death?

2) This is the clinic. Pretty much here is speculation about conspiracies.

3) Is that reason to ban a topic? Pretty much any topic can lead to bans, hardly the fault of the topic(s), but the posters, no? It's not like there isn't any problems or unnecessary conflicts atm...

It's just simple speculation that a soigneur (like other soigneurs in the past) had experimented with peds on himself, possibly being the cause of his death. I really can't see any problem with that, and I don't think it's a problem if some doesn't like the topic.

If the PDM affair in 1991 had led to the death of a rider, would that topic then also be banned?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

1) Just like the discussion regarding Thatcher after her death?

2) This is the clinic. Pretty much here is speculation about conspiracies.

3) Is that reason to ban a topic? Pretty much any topic can lead to bans, hardly the fault of the topic(s), but the posters, no? It's not like there isn't any problems or unnecessary conflicts atm...

It's just simple speculation that a soigneur (like other soigneurs in the past) had experimented with peds on himself, possibly being the cause of his death. I really can't see any problem with that, and I don't think it's a problem if some doesn't like the topic.

If the PDM affair in 1991 had led to the death of a rider, would that topic then also be banned?

I agree with you, open a new topic for it nevertheless. Just for the ones with a soft heart...