Rod, ripping out Virenques photo while kissing Simpson's ***, Ellingworth.
These fakes are worse than the likes of Bruyneel, Riis, Lefevere and Saronni....
These fakes are worse than the likes of Bruyneel, Riis, Lefevere and Saronni....
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The Hitch said:Ricco. But let's just call it a non corporate speak personality and praise him for honesty like we do with wiggo.
You are acting as if Wiggins attacked Landis cos he was a doper. That's not what happened though.
Landis may have been all those things
but what you ignore is that wiggos attack on him was not in defense of clean cycling or an attack on doping. It was in defense of Lance Armstrong a man who was all the bad things you say about Landis and worse. Wiggins attacked Landis for breaking omerta.
That is why we all see his attack on Landis as such a big deal. Because he was doing it in defense of lance. Everyone who was anti doping sided with landis and everyone who was pro omerta sided with lance.
It's pretty simple really. The man who won 7 tdfs doped and bullied anyone who spoke out for clean cycling gets called out by a former teammate as a doper. Wiggins, who knew lance doped takes his side anyway. And you claim this is irrelevant?
Freddythefrog said:I enjoyed that one so much. You obviously don't know Herety.
My "moment" of the day - Herety being held up as the determinant and sage spokesman for honourable behaviour.
[John Hartson appears on BBC TV as a football pundit and sage. It amazes me what pea sized brains and zero memory capacity Sports TV producers have. Try asking Eyal Berkovic for an opinion on Hartson, or the photographer that captured the training ground incident. Bringing the game into disrepute was what he was charged with. Berkovic could not eat anything for two days. Assault and a jail term were more like what was required. Just cos they appear on the telly dosn't mean a jot.]
But I have to say, thank you so much for the image.
bobbins said:Rods past will come back to him one day. It's a small world out there!
the sceptic said:Lets get back to the topic at hand.
If marginal gains is real, why doesnt it work on the riders you would think it would work on?
Like someone who has been riding for euskaltel their entire career. Seems like a perfect example of someone who should benefit greatly from marginal gains.
martinvickers said:Actually, let's not. Let's stick with things aren't strawmen. Given Wiggins is known to actually support a women's team, and has called for Sky to field one in addition, it's absolutely farcical to pull Ricco's misogyny into the conversation.
I said, and suggested, nothing of the sort.
Strawman, yet again.
What is your f***ing problem that you keep trying to put words into people's mouths?
May?? May?? That's pretty pathetic of you right there, Hitch.
I don't ignore it, not at all. I just don't care that much, because frankly, I hoped, and hope, both Landis and Armstrong fry. You know, if Wiggins supported Armstrong, he supported a doping, cheating c***. If he supported Landis, he supported a doping, cheating c***. Makes no difference to me. I just want rid of doping cheating c****. When you can find some actual evidence Wiggins, or anyone else, is among those doping cheatring c****, I'll want rid of them too.
I don't pick 'nice' dopers to like, Hitch. I accept not all dopers are the type of sociopath that Armstrong was. But Landis ain't one of the 'good' guys.
"we all". Take a poll, of that, did you? OR is that just you assuming everybody 'nice' must agree with you?
No. I claimed I don't care. That I found other things about Sky and Wiggins much more important, and worth worrying about. Not the same, not the same at all. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem. Strawmen are your speciality, Hitch. I don't have to tolerate them.
Frankly, let's cut to the chase here. IF, at the time Wiggins had sided with the proven doper over the strongly suspected doper, he'd likely have been crucified for it. The common sense answer was not to support Landis. And no-one could ever accuse Wiggins of being brave.
Of course, this rather ignores the fact that, just as it was ex colleagues of Armstrong who informed Wiggins that he was dirty, it was also ex colleagues of Landis (Barry) who informed him Landis was bitter, had lost it and was drunk all the time.
Maybe it would be better if ex colleagues took their f***ing stories to WADA in the first place, rather than in an English ex-trackie.
gooner said:Congratulations on the most ridiculous of comparisons.
I do know ..............
Take your agenda with Hartson(and that's what it is, no relation to the topic of the thread) somewhere else.
Digger said:Good day Martin?
Digger said:Good day Martin?
The Hitch said:Ricco. But let's just call it a non corporate speak personality and praise him for honesty like we do with wiggo.
what makes him worse than, say, a david brailsford?martinvickers said:...I loathe Bruyneel, he's the absolute worst in my eyes
martinvickers said:"we all". Take a poll, of that, did you? OR is that just you assuming everybody 'nice' must agree with you?
sniper said:what makes him worse than, say, a david brailsford?
sniper said:what makes him worse than, say, a david brailsford?
he got caught alright.Hugh Januss said:He got caught. You can bet all these guys are a whole lot more careful any time they open their mouths than in the "good old days".
I think Sky are the dirtiest thing this side of Katusha but come on that is ridiculous.sniper said:what makes him worse than, say, a david brailsford?
sniper said:what makes him worse than, say, a david brailsford?
Hugh Januss said:I took the "we all" not to mean "everyone nice" but rather "anyone with a functioning brain" YMMV.
martinvickers said:But I have to be honest, of all the things to get genuinely concerned or suspicious about with Wiggins/Sky - Leinders, Yates, De Jongh, Henao - his (poor) choice between Armstrong and Landis is SO far down my list I couldn't really five a toss. I want Wiggins taken down if, and/or because, he's a doper, and if so, taken down hard. I couldn't care less if he took one cheating ****s side over another cheating c***. I don't give it anything like the value as evidence others do, because frankly it proves only that he wanted to stay on the right side of the wrong person. Sorry, if that offends, but thems the breaks.
.martinvickers said:I don't give it anything like the value as evidence others do, because frankly it proves only that he wanted to stay on the right side of the wrong person. Sorry, if that offends, but thems the breaks.
edit: p.s. if you can think of a better phrase than cheating c*** for Armstrong, I'm all ears. ;-)
fair enough...martinvickers said:http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Zabriskie+David+Affidavit.pdf
When you have actual evidence that Brailsford has acted like this, we can talk.
Wiggins, the Team Sky leader, said: “I personally don’t believe Contador is guilty. I’m a big fan, I think he’s an incredible athlete.