Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Hitch]

Just watched it on youtube and froome and wiggo drop nibs but it was most definitely froome doing the work, he had to keep slowing down to keep wiggo on his wheel.

So Wiggins could maintain the pace froome set but Nibali could not. That's all one needs to know to know who the stronger climber was.

 

[Netserk]

So Wiggins could maintain the pace froome set but Nibali could not. That's all one needs to know to know who the stronger climber was.

But they had matching jerseys, so obviously that was a huuuuuge boost for Wiggo

 

[The Hitch]

But they had matching jerseys, so obviously that was a huuuuuge boost for Wiggo

Some of the posters on here really seem to think that's how it works. That slipstream only works if it's your teammate in front of you. But the laws of physics automatically suspend themselves if the wheel in front of you belongs to a different team. Therefore though Nibali was with Wiggins and froome and appeared to be part of their slipstream, in reality it was more like a pcm time trial and froome and Wiggins with magic slipstream power were doing a "tag team"

 

[20SecondsToComply]

So Wiggins could maintain the pace froome set but Nibali could not. That's all one needs to know to know who the stronger climber was.

Dropped in the last 3k after Nibs had attacked many times and was injured from what other people say. Not sure it proves a hell of a lot tbh.

 

[Benotti69]

So now Sky 'diesels' can drop natural climbers. A 'diesel' TTer can climb Hors Cat cols better than the climbers because he is a 'diesel'......so those climbers really need to 'diesel' up. 'Diesel up', wonder is that better than 'marginal gains'.

 

[stutue]

So Wiggins could maintain the pace froome set but Nibali could not. That's all one needs to know to know who the stronger climber was.

I think you need to ask yourself what Nibali needed
to do that day in the grand scheme of things, and compare it to what Wiggins needed to do.

The answer meant added stress for Nibali. Cycle racing isn't just a physical challenge.

I don't know if you've done any bike racing and I'd still read and value your opinion if you've never turned a pedal in anger, but I can tell you that when the opposition is very near to you in ability it can be the stronger mind that wins.

I won't reveal how I found this out

Was Nibali isolated? What difference did that make to the possibilities of what Froome and Wiggins could do that day regardless of what they needed to do, or in fact did?

Nibali would have been thinking those things over and once he tried and failed to outgun the pair he knew he was done.

 

[20SecondsToComply]

So now Sky 'diesels' can drop natural climbers. A 'diesel' TTer can climb Hors Cat cols better than the climbers because he is a 'diesel'......so those climbers really need to 'diesel' up. 'Diesel up', wonder is that better than 'marginal gains'.

If you mean my post that isn't what i said. As people on here have posted Nibs attacked a lot that day but was reeled back in slowly but surely. And also was apparently injured, so being dropped near the end really doesn't demonstrate much.

 

[martinvickers]

So now Sky 'diesels' can drop natural climbers. A 'diesel' TTer can climb Hors Cat cols better than the climbers because he is a 'diesel'......so those climbers really need to 'diesel' up. 'Diesel up', wonder is that better than 'marginal gains'.

Wow...that's so bad, it's not even wrong.

"Teacher : what's 2 + 2 ?

Kid : Em..Yellow."

 

[stutue]

< snort mustn't laugh..must...not...laugh, must be a grown up and not join in with the kids...snort>



Martin, can we keep things civil, I'm interested in everybody's view, but it is a tinderbox in here and you are flicking the Zippo


D)

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So now Sky 'diesels' can drop natural climbers. A 'diesel' TTer can climb Hors Cat cols better than the climbers because he is a 'diesel'......so those climbers really need to 'diesel' up. 'Diesel up', wonder is that better than 'marginal gains'.

"Diesel" and "natural" are perhaps misleading terms in respect of climbers. The former seems to be interpreted as being worse than the latter. In reality, they are just different styles of climbers.

What counts is who goes uphill fastest. The "natural" climber - which appears to be a climber with a good change of pace - has more tactical options than a diesel in race situations where winning, as opposed to time gains are important, but it doesn't mean he should necessarily get from bottom to top of a long climb faster than a "diesel".

Consider an analogy from athletics - Steve Cram did not have a finishing sprint of the same standard as Coe or Ovett, but in his prime years i.e. 83, 85 and 86, he was so fast over the last 600m that Coe's and Ovett's sprint finishes were neutralised and he generally beat them, despite being a more one-dimensional athlete. (Caveat - Cram's peak didn't coincide with the others' peaks. 1985 Cram vs 1978 Ovett would have been an absolute belter!)

 

[stutue]

Who gets to decide who is a 'diesel' and who isn't?

You can't just set your own vague definitions, expect everyone else to go along with your assumption, and then use it to define your argument into truth.

And to be quite clear, I've seen this going on from staunch Sky fanboys as well as from the haters.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Who gets to decide who is a 'diesel' and who isn't?

I don't think this is too controversial. A good climber without a significant change of pace is a "diesel". A good climber with a change of pace is a "natural climber".

If a natural climber can't TT then they are sub-classified as a pure climber.

A diesel who can't TT is simply a domestique!

The controversial bit is whether being a "diesel" means you are automatically not going to be able to match the performances of a natural climber.

 

[ebandit]

haring

So now Sky 'diesels' can drop natural climbers. A 'diesel' TTer can climb Hors Cat cols better than the climbers because he is a 'diesel'......so those climbers really need to 'diesel' up. 'Diesel up', wonder is that better than 'marginal gains'.

hare...........meet tortoise............'tis 1st to finish that counts

............you're welcome

Mark L

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Microsoft: pure luck.

What has it got to do with coaching?

 

[Benotti69]

hare...........meet tortoise............'tis 1st to finish that counts

............you're welcome

Mark L

Donkey meet Pharmacist.........

 

[Benotti69]

Who gets to decide who is a 'diesel' and who isn't?

You can't just set your own vague definitions, expect everyone else to go along with your assumption, and then use it to define your argument into truth.

And to be quite clear, I've seen this going on from staunch Sky fanboys as well as from the haters.

the mask is slipping.........

 

[Dear Wiggo]

lolworthy headline:

Lizzie Armitstead: we cannot prepare as properly as Bradley Wiggins
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...radley-wiggins-women-cyclists-tour-of-britain

 

[TourOfSardinia]

This is becoming rather predictable

Kennaugh out of Giro d'Italia with illness


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kennaugh-out-of-giro-ditalia-with-illness


Away from the numbers is where I wanna be...

 

[alspacka]

Kennaugh out of the giro. Dropping like flies.

I've always been of the opinion that there's too much on the line for sky to be systematically doping, what with the knighthoods and GBs track record coming into question, but this is clearly not normal. Highly suspicious.

 

[Nathan12]

Kennaugh out of the giro. Dropping like flies.

I've always been of the opinion that there's too much on the line for sky to be systematically doping, what with the knighthoods and GBs track record coming into question, but this is clearly not normal. Highly suspicious.

He's also getting ****y on Twitter with Kimmage. I checked PK's Twitter but he hasn't posted anything since yesterday. Anyone know what that's about?

Old tweet, sorry.

 

[alspacka]

I suppose it's possible that they've written off the Giro and are going all in for the tour. Either way, I don't like it.

 

[the sceptic]

Everyone at sky dropping like flies except for the Dawg. I guess he is the protected one.

If Walsh was a real journalist, he could have a lot of stuff to dig into lately.. too busy writing the Froome book I suppose.

 

[hrotha]

Everyone at sky dropping like flies except for the Dawg. I guess he is the protected one.

If Walsh was a real journalist, he could have a lot of stuff to dig into lately.. too busy writing the Froome book I suppose.

Two alternative theories:
a) Froome is a super responder.
b) Froome does his own thing, independently from Sky's program. Less plausible, but worth looking into considering how, well, independent his transformation in 2011 was.

I feel b) would raise more questions than it answers though. I still think the explanation that Wiggins needed him on the program for the Vuelta after he dropped out of the Tour is a better fit.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He's also getting ****y on Twitter with Kimmage. I checked PK's Twitter but he hasn't posted anything since yesterday. Anyone know what that's about?

Old tweet, sorry.

Yeah

 

[Mellow Velo]

Everyone at sky dropping like flies except for the Dawg. I guess he is the protected one.

If Walsh was a real journalist, he could have a lot of stuff to dig into lately.. too busy writing the Froome book I suppose.

Guesswork passes for evidence around here, so not to worry.
I wonder what happened to poor Richie's protection?
Insurance policy all paid up, then suddenly, for some strange reason, invalidated, mid Tirreno.
I guess he'll be unprotected until the Tour then protected again, come July.