Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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There is no value to secrecy. Anything broad and sweeping enough is common knowledge or is easily learned, and anything subtle, or "marginal" is only so because it is so individualized. Diet is the perfect example. I know that I am exercising x ti target adaptation y, so will eat z. I don't care what anyone else eats because they are a,b,c or e,f,g.

That being said, so many athletes, even at the highest level, can have such inane ideas about exercise. Listening to the world's best talk about VO2 max and lactic acid is excruciating. Their secrecy compartmentalizes their own philosophies which are often wrong, and solidifies them against evelving research and practice.

Secrecy is frustrating.

So is claiming marginal gains as something more than it is. I'd say the biggest benefit of marginal gains is the placebo effect you get from thinking you're doing something beneficial. Anything that falls outside the definition of individualization and good logistics (so it lessens the anxiety in the athlete)isn't anything connected to performance. Cut out Nutella, but it's only a gain if a guy can't help but eat it with a spoon. If thats the case, its individualization, and not some divine marginal gain (and nothing for the rest of the team who controll themselves). But Sky choose a "holier than thou" attitude with this thing.
 
SeriousSam said:
And you actually believe this? For real? That competition-time nutrition involves some super secret stuff where real relative performance advantages are possible?
Allen Lim doesn't care if your name is Dave Brailsford, you're sure as hell not getting a look at his grandmother's proprietary ricecake formula without paying $19.99 at your local bookstore.
 
stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
And then froome goes and tells basso for free.
 
stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
I think it's more likely that they want to discuss the days tactics and don't want to be overheard.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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King Boonen said:
I think it's more likely that they want to discuss the days tactics and don't want to be overheard.
And avoid any potential cold / virus issues the other teams may have.
 
May 26, 2009
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stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
I just hope the right breakfast goes to the right rooms.
 
King Boonen said:
I think it's more likely that they want to discuss the days tactics and don't want to be overheard.
Aw c'mon why do you have to be like that? I was quite enjoying the magical marginal gains fairy tale about super-most-top-secret race day nutrition. The barn doors are already open on that one anyhow. Horner already told everyone it's beetroot juice or bust when it comes to being a GT winner.
 
Benotti69 said:
How old is the Mapei sports centre in Italy? Answer founded in 1996, 18years.

So the Italians have been studying sport, especially cycling, since at least 1996 and Sky think they know better!

More evidence Sky are full of it!
^^^This

Aldo Sassi probably forgot more about cycling performance and physiology than Failsfraud could ever hope to know.

Even with all their flaws, I'll probably put Checcini, Conconi and Ferrari in the same category.
 
Franklin said:
You would have a point if only that the methods advocated by Sky lack any scientific support whatsoever. To put it in other words: They are focussing on details which are quite frankly useless. So how does it explain their superiority?

It's the enormous problem whcih makes believing Sky is clean almost impossible. Besides all the obvious lies and subterfuge:

How can a team with methods which are quite frankly bunk destroy the competition which is unlikely to be clean?

Is Bradley so talented that he can without dope somehow beat dopers which have been untouchable?

The only explenation would be that everyone rides clean now. Now I'm very much critical of mindless bashing every rider, but that hypothesis is about as believable as the one about a fat man living at the pole who doles out presents to the whole world at his birthday.

Is it proof? No. but the position that Sky is clean is truly one of faith, not based on logic. The logical position is overwhelmingly that Sky is cheating in a big, big way.
OK Franklin, in 2012 in Wiggin's golden season who did he beat that was doping.

And if nothing has changed recently in terms of nutrition why did Andy Schleck say

Everyone is so serious with the food, with the nutrition, with just everything around it. It is a lot more complex than it was seven, eight years before.
obvioulsy implying that nutrition and diet in the peloton has moved on significantly over the last few years.
 
More Strides than Rides said:
That being said, so many athletes, even at the highest level, can have such inane ideas about exercise. Listening to the world's best talk about VO2 max and lactic acid is excruciating.
I think that we over-estimate the level of expertise there is in the sport in general.

I have referred to this before but when riding for AG2R and going for a high GC in the tour Nico Roche wasn't even training on his TT bike. He didn't have one at home. Staggering. (source - his own book).
 
simoni said:
I think that we over-estimate the level of expertise there is in the sport in general.

I have referred to this before but when riding for AG2R and going for a high GC in the tour Nico Roche wasn't even training on his TT bike. He didn't have one at home. Staggering. (source - his own book).
Dowsett when he moved to Movistar (who recruited him for his TT prowess) had to fight tooth and nail to get a TT bike to train on.
 
the sceptic said:
"the horse steroid smoothie is missing? quick, get me Zorzoli on the phone"
"Richie, what did we tell you about telling other teams about our protein shakes? Now go to your room and sit in the corner. Dave will be in later to speak with you. You've been very naughty. No protein bars for you!"
 
Oct 21, 2012
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del1962 said:
OK Franklin, in 2012 in Wiggin's golden season who did he beat that was doping.

And if nothing has changed recently in terms of nutrition why did Andy Schleck say



obvioulsy implying that nutrition and diet in the peloton has moved on significantly over the last few years.
I can't believe the Schleck quote. Hamilton's biography quite clearly outlines that there had been an obsession with food as early as the 90s.
 
Dec 9, 2012
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Catwhoorg said:
Dowsett when he moved to Movistar (who recruited him for his TT prowess) had to fight tooth and nail to get a TT bike to train on.
As far as I recall it was just the race wheels, he had a bike, they weren't expecting the situation he has in the UK where in the season he could race every week if he wanted to for training.
 
Dowsett is quite low down the pecking order at movistar though.

But skys story is contingent on froome doing more than the gc guys, not the domestiques.

It's telling that the only stories we actually hear about other teams not doing marginal gains are of non gc contenders.

Does that mean contador or Nibali also won't have tt bikes. Or that contador and Nibali will also drink beer during gts?

Bull****.
 
gooner said:
Dowsett did say it.
Eurosport as a studio guest for the TT stage in the Tour last year.
Usual Bot BS.

Dowsett couldn't be happier with the support from Movistar. They are even building him a special TT bike.

If anything at Sky he was just another rider. At Movistar they are treating him well and letting select races.

New Bikes and Kit

The second year in Movistar has begun with new clothing from a British company (Endura) and new bikes. The shoes too are new from Diadora.

“The kit is lovely and all custom made” Alex explained. “Something I haven’t had before is they custom make the chamois depending on how big your backside is. I have been training in the new kit for a few days and it’s been very comfortable.”

“Everything fits well. It’s not made to stand up straight, it’s made to fit a bike rider so I am looking forward to getting the race skin suit as I know they have worked hard on them”.

Asked how the time trial bike is, Alex explained how he’s still waiting for it but is expecting it to be very fast. Once he has his, Alex says he’s looking forward to taking it into the wind tunnel with a couple of his teammates and getting the position right.

”I have set up the time trial bike and they are now building it. I have gone with everything I think will work for me. I haven’t ridden it but its German engineered and everything has a purpose. It does look fast but more importantly, it’s about function. There are no bits added on just to look good but then it does look fantastic anyway.”

Asked what he looks for in his TT bike, Alex replied “a clean look. No cables flapping about or bolts and screws everywhere. Everything on the Canyon is tucked away. It’s about getting as close to a track bike where you can’t see the front brakes or the rear brakes. I can see from our aero road bikes that there is a lot of thought gone into them. Like the seat post clamp is the frame number holder.”

“A lot of the TT bikes which are considered the fastest, like Specialised, Pinarello and Trek, that could be just because Cancellera, Wiggins and Martin are on them. So hopefully we can prove that the Canyon TT bike is also one of the fastest TT bikes out there.”

Tour de France contender Quintana – Alex looking to support him in the 2014 Tour de France.

A year on

Finally, we touched on it at the start and that’s the subject of whether going to a Spanish speaking team from a British one was a good idea for a British rider?

Alex doesn’t need to think about the answer … “it’s been absolutely top draw! They did everything they promised right from the start. They put me in my first Grand Tour and the one that suited me best.”

“If you look at Team Sky’s Grand Tour team (Giro), if I had been management, I wouldn’t have put myself in it so that would not have been an opportunity I’d have got in Sky. I did all the Classics, did terrible in them but know what I need to do next time. After the Giro, I was able to have a long lay off and they gave me everything I could ask for”.

“It is a nice place to be.”

Having seen Movistar at the Tour of Britain where they wowed the crowd on the road and at the start and finishes, it is no surprise that Alex has had such success there and why a company like Endura too have got involved with them. 2014 is set to be a huge year for both Alex and Endura and we at VeloUK hope they all have the success they are chasing on the roads of Europe and beyond.
http://www.velouk.net/2014/01/10/interview-alex-dowsett-movistar/
 
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