Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Aug 31, 2012
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Franklin said:
You would have a point if only that the methods advocated by Sky lack any scientific support whatsoever. To put it in other words: They are focussing on details which are quite frankly useless. So how does it explain their superiority?

It's the enormous problem whcih makes believing Sky is clean almost impossible. Besides all the obvious lies and subterfuge:

How can a team with methods which are quite frankly bunk destroy the competition which is unlikely to be clean?

Is Bradley so talented that he can without dope somehow beat dopers which have been untouchable?

The only explenation would be that everyone rides clean now. Now I'm very much critical of mindless bashing every rider, but that hypothesis is about as believable as the one about a fat man living at the pole who doles out presents to the whole world at his birthday.

Is it proof? No. but the position that Sky is clean is truly one of faith, not based on logic. The logical position is overwhelmingly that Sky is cheating in a big, big way.
To be fair, Sky have taken PR management tailored to patriotic anglophones to unprecedented levels. It has worked remarkably well. A sizable portion of their fan base actually seems to believe that stuff like bringing your own pillows to hotels gives you 50 watts, or that every non-Sky rider is a lazy cheater who can't compete in the clean era of cycling.

Hammering such nonsense into the heads of people likely required novel psychological insights.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
And you actually believe this? For real? That competition-time nutrition involves some super secret stuff where real relative performance advantages are possible?
 
There is no value to secrecy. Anything broad and sweeping enough is common knowledge or is easily learned, and anything subtle, or "marginal" is only so because it is so individualized. Diet is the perfect example. I know that I am exercising x ti target adaptation y, so will eat z. I don't care what anyone else eats because they are a,b,c or e,f,g.

That being said, so many athletes, even at the highest level, can have such inane ideas about exercise. Listening to the world's best talk about VO2 max and lactic acid is excruciating. Their secrecy compartmentalizes their own philosophies which are often wrong, and solidifies them against evelving research and practice.

Secrecy is frustrating.

So is claiming marginal gains as something more than it is. I'd say the biggest benefit of marginal gains is the placebo effect you get from thinking you're doing something beneficial. Anything that falls outside the definition of individualization and good logistics (so it lessens the anxiety in the athlete)isn't anything connected to performance. Cut out Nutella, but it's only a gain if a guy can't help but eat it with a spoon. If thats the case, its individualization, and not some divine marginal gain (and nothing for the rest of the team who controll themselves). But Sky choose a "holier than thou" attitude with this thing.
 
SeriousSam said:
And you actually believe this? For real? That competition-time nutrition involves some super secret stuff where real relative performance advantages are possible?
Allen Lim doesn't care if your name is Dave Brailsford, you're sure as hell not getting a look at his grandmother's proprietary ricecake formula without paying $19.99 at your local bookstore.
 
stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
And then froome goes and tells basso for free.
 
stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
I think it's more likely that they want to discuss the days tactics and don't want to be overheard.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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King Boonen said:
I think it's more likely that they want to discuss the days tactics and don't want to be overheard.
And avoid any potential cold / virus issues the other teams may have.
 
May 26, 2009
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stutue said:
Of course Sky don't have the monopoly on innovation, and you'd be surprised just how cagey most teams are about what they do. At this year's TdF, one of the hotels in Harrogate has several teams staying in it. Each team has stipulated a separate room for breakfast.....because they don't want opposing teams to see what they are eating.
I just hope the right breakfast goes to the right rooms.
 
King Boonen said:
I think it's more likely that they want to discuss the days tactics and don't want to be overheard.
Aw c'mon why do you have to be like that? I was quite enjoying the magical marginal gains fairy tale about super-most-top-secret race day nutrition. The barn doors are already open on that one anyhow. Horner already told everyone it's beetroot juice or bust when it comes to being a GT winner.
 
Benotti69 said:
How old is the Mapei sports centre in Italy? Answer founded in 1996, 18years.

So the Italians have been studying sport, especially cycling, since at least 1996 and Sky think they know better!

More evidence Sky are full of it!
^^^This

Aldo Sassi probably forgot more about cycling performance and physiology than Failsfraud could ever hope to know.

Even with all their flaws, I'll probably put Checcini, Conconi and Ferrari in the same category.
 
Franklin said:
You would have a point if only that the methods advocated by Sky lack any scientific support whatsoever. To put it in other words: They are focussing on details which are quite frankly useless. So how does it explain their superiority?

It's the enormous problem whcih makes believing Sky is clean almost impossible. Besides all the obvious lies and subterfuge:

How can a team with methods which are quite frankly bunk destroy the competition which is unlikely to be clean?

Is Bradley so talented that he can without dope somehow beat dopers which have been untouchable?

The only explenation would be that everyone rides clean now. Now I'm very much critical of mindless bashing every rider, but that hypothesis is about as believable as the one about a fat man living at the pole who doles out presents to the whole world at his birthday.

Is it proof? No. but the position that Sky is clean is truly one of faith, not based on logic. The logical position is overwhelmingly that Sky is cheating in a big, big way.
OK Franklin, in 2012 in Wiggin's golden season who did he beat that was doping.

And if nothing has changed recently in terms of nutrition why did Andy Schleck say

Everyone is so serious with the food, with the nutrition, with just everything around it. It is a lot more complex than it was seven, eight years before.
obvioulsy implying that nutrition and diet in the peloton has moved on significantly over the last few years.
 
More Strides than Rides said:
That being said, so many athletes, even at the highest level, can have such inane ideas about exercise. Listening to the world's best talk about VO2 max and lactic acid is excruciating.
I think that we over-estimate the level of expertise there is in the sport in general.

I have referred to this before but when riding for AG2R and going for a high GC in the tour Nico Roche wasn't even training on his TT bike. He didn't have one at home. Staggering. (source - his own book).
 
simoni said:
I think that we over-estimate the level of expertise there is in the sport in general.

I have referred to this before but when riding for AG2R and going for a high GC in the tour Nico Roche wasn't even training on his TT bike. He didn't have one at home. Staggering. (source - his own book).
Dowsett when he moved to Movistar (who recruited him for his TT prowess) had to fight tooth and nail to get a TT bike to train on.
 
the sceptic said:
"the horse steroid smoothie is missing? quick, get me Zorzoli on the phone"
"Richie, what did we tell you about telling other teams about our protein shakes? Now go to your room and sit in the corner. Dave will be in later to speak with you. You've been very naughty. No protein bars for you!"
 
Oct 21, 2012
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del1962 said:
OK Franklin, in 2012 in Wiggin's golden season who did he beat that was doping.

And if nothing has changed recently in terms of nutrition why did Andy Schleck say



obvioulsy implying that nutrition and diet in the peloton has moved on significantly over the last few years.
I can't believe the Schleck quote. Hamilton's biography quite clearly outlines that there had been an obsession with food as early as the 90s.
 

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