Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[DirtyWorks]

wtf is up with LRP? Can't find him on any startlists, absolute car crash of a season. Hopefully if he's called it already he can reboot in time for next year. I don't doubt that he was ill at some stages but looks a bit tap-on-the-shoulder-ish.

We know the UCI has done non-positive "take a vacation" letters.

 

[JRanton]

wtf is up with LRP? Can't find him on any startlists, absolute car crash of a season. Hopefully if he's called it already he can reboot in time for next year. I don't doubt that he was ill at some stages but looks a bit tap-on-the-shoulder-ish.

Called it a day for this season. I'm more interested to know what's happened to Josh Edmondson and why he hasn't been listed in any recent startlists...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Last ride was Poland, so don't know. Maybe he will get some starts in October.

 

[JRanton]

Last ride was Poland, so don't know. Maybe he will get some starts in October.

They sent Dombrowski to Canada just to make the numbers up (he was just back from surgery) so if Edmondson was available he would surely have been selected to race there.

 

[Benotti69]

Sky appear to act and behave just like a regular pro team..........

 

[Benotti69]

Sky talk about doing things better than other teams........their so called marginal gains....

camer across this quote from Raphaël Géminiani

". a day never passes without thinking of Coppi" ..."my master - he taught me everything." ... "He invented everything: diet, training, technique, he was 15 years ahead of everyone."

Géminiani rode with Coppi from 1952.........

More proof Sky are not doing anything different.

 

[del1962]

Sky talk about doing things better than other teams........their so called marginal gains....

camer across this quote from Raphaël Géminiani

". a day never passes without thinking of Coppi" ..."my master - he taught me everything." ... "He invented everything: diet, training, technique, he was 15 years ahead of everyone."

Géminiani rode with Coppi from 1952.........

More proof Sky are not doing anything different.

How does that quote proove anything?

 

[laurel1969]

Right, so if Coppi was using 1967 training and diet techniques in 1952.

Are you suggesting that diet and training haven't changed in 47 years?

Sorry, but whilst I agree with you about so-called 'marginal gains', your post doesn't really add anything except open you up to an obvious critique.

 

[the sceptic]

Sky talk about doing things better than other teams........their so called marginal gains....

camer across this quote from Raphaël Géminiani

". a day never passes without thinking of Coppi" ..."my master - he taught me everything." ... "He invented everything: diet, training, technique, he was 15 years ahead of everyone."

Géminiani rode with Coppi from 1952.........

More proof Sky are not doing anything different.

of course sky didnt to anything that hasnt been done many times before.

marginal gains is propaganda aimed at fooling british fans. Nothing more.

 

[Bexon30]

of course sky didnt to anything that hasnt been done many times before.

marginal gains is propaganda aimed at fooling british fans. Nothing more.

not quite correct, as there's lots of pre Sky fans as you know. I think its more accurate to say new cyclng fans and casual fans. You know that though.

 

[laurel1969]

All the same, there have been huge strides since 67, and here are likely to continue to be progress. Somebody has to be first.

I don't really have an issue with marginal gains as a model (I'm sure there is still folklore in some teams), but I agree that it is disingenuous to use it to explain huge leaps in performance of a rider or riders. I think a lot of marginal gains have cone about through....sorry....Armstrong attracting more wealthy sponsors that can pay for luxuries like team buses with two showers, rather than a towel and the open boot of a hatchback team car to sit in and wipe the grime off. More staff=more care. Its obvious that a decent bedroom and a decent mattress and pillow will help recovery sleep rather than the broken-springed mouse-infested crap holes of <1990's France

 

[Hawkwood]

Its obvious that a decent bedroom and a decent mattress and pillow will help recovery sleep rather than the broken-springed mouse-infested crap holes of <1990's France

One pro cyclist from the 1980s-90s mentioned camp beds in school halls.

 

[TheSpud]

All the same, there have been huge strides since 67, and here are likely to continue to be progress. Somebody has to be first.

I don't really have an issue with marginal gains as a model (I'm sure there is still folklore in some teams), but I agree that it is disingenuous to use it to explain huge leaps in performance of a rider or riders. I think a lot of marginal gains have cone about through....sorry....Armstrong attracting more wealthy sponsors that can pay for luxuries like team buses with two showers, rather than a towel and the open boot of a hatchback team car to sit in and wipe the grime off. More staff=more care. Its obvious that a decent bedroom and a decent mattress and pillow will help recovery sleep rather than the broken-springed mouse-infested crap holes of <1990's France

I agree - I see marginal gains as more of a 'look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves' type principle. For instance like having a good nights sleep, good facilities, good transport, etc. - minimise the 'disturbance' from those and the riders / team can concentrate more on riding.

We've heard some funnies like hand washing, pineapple juice - I don't believe these were directly mentioned from SKY as a magic formula. They have come from observers / reporters who have highlighted these as the 'small' things ('pennies' in this case) that they concentrate on. In Track a tenth / hundredth here & there is seen quickly over 3/4/5/10 laps. In road maybe not so much - but if it saves you 5% energy per stage? That's a big amount.

What we have never heard about is the 'pounds' - the training plans, intensity, etc. That's where the real gains are - I'm not saying that there haven't been suspicious performances, just that people like to scoff at MG by picking on the small things (e.g. pineapple juice) that are, frankly, a distraction in terms of SKYs approach.

 

[the sceptic]

The real gains come from doping, and UCI protection.

 

[TheSpud]

The real gains come from doping, and UCI protection.

Glad you're contributing to the debate ...

 

[the sceptic]

Glad you're contributing to the debate ...

My contribution is to tell you that you are wrong and that whatever gains you can make from that stuff is nothing compared to the gains from doping and/or UCI protection.

 

[BYOP88]

My contribution is to tell you that you are wrong and that whatever gains you can make from that stuff is nothing compared to the gains from doping and/or UCI protection.

Pineapple juice works man!

I had some good old fashioned Pineapple juice before and during my ride today and I averaged 36 km/h. Yesterday no Pineapple juice and I just hit 30 km/h. So I've bought a new pillow and lets see if I can hit 40 tomorrow.

 

[Bexon30]

Pineapple juice works man!

I had some good old fashioned Pineapple juice before and during my ride today and I averaged 36 km/h. Yesterday no Pineapple juice and I just hit 30 km/h. So I've bought a new pillow and lets see if I can hit 40 tomorrow.

That's a 20% margin of gain! Huge I say. Link....

 

[red_flanders]

Its obvious that a decent bedroom and a decent mattress and pillow will help recovery sleep rather than the broken-springed mouse-infested crap holes of <1990's France

It's also obvious that there is no difference between Sky and other teams in this regard, making their statements that these are "gains", marginal or otherwise, laughable.

And because it's so laughable, it makes people wonder why they would make such claims other than to provide a false explanation of actual gains to people who don't know anything about the sport.

 

[Benotti69]

How does that quote proove anything?

Well i bet Coppi didn't put pineapple juice in his water bidon

What it does prove is that the idea that other teams are not into training, diet and technique like Sky are is utter BS. Teams were considering it back in the 50s and have been improving since.

That Sky are using methods from the 80s and 90s and calling them innovative proves they are full of BS.

Keep buying the rapha gear del, you look marvellous

 

[laurel1969]

And because it's so laughable, it makes people wonder why they would make such claims other than to provide a false explanation of actual gains to people who don't know anything about the sport.

Why would people who don't know anything about the sport require an explanation of the actual gains?

 

[SeriousSam]

Why would people who don't know anything about the sport require an explanation of the actual gains?

Because everything happens for a reason and people need to know that reason. Those fans knew Wiggo and Froomey didn't previously do as well because if they did, they'd have heard about it but they're only hearing now about it so they didn't. W

 

[laurel1969]

Because everything happens for a reason and people need to know that reason. Those fans knew Wiggo and Froomey didn't previously do as well because if they did, they'd have heard about it but they're only hearing now about it so they didn't. W

Err...yeah

 

[laurel1969]

I'm not even convinced there is a large body of loyal Sky fans. I don't think I've ever met one. I view them as opportunist fans latching onto the most accessible and heavily promoted team in the UK, in the context of a rapidly growing leisure market. Sky is a media organisation ferrchrissakes, we'd expect some sort of media schtick.

 

[red_flanders]

Why would people who don't know anything about the sport require an explanation of the actual gains?

Maybe "people who don't know anything about the sport" wasn't the right phrasing. "Casual fans who might want to be able to provide some kind of explanation when someone who does understand the history of the sport asks them how former pack-fodder are now dominant" might have been better.

Whatever the case, when transformations are unbelievable they require explanations, whomever the constituency.

People who don't know much about the sport will swallow these explanations. As will people who have put on blinders due to nationalistic or other bias. It's been done over and over again, and Sky are simply the latest.

People who understand the sport get that all teams have busses and pillows and nice hotel rooms and warming down, and will see that it's a smoke screen meant to distract and cover up the obvious.

I thought that was all pretty obvious from my first post, but hope that clears it up.