Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re:

luckyboy said:
Richard Moore @richardmoore73 6m
Some interesting stuff in Sunday Times today about British athletes and possible abuse of thyroid medication. Behind paywall.
Anybody see this?
Did somebody say thyroid medication? http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241 ... 3149043072

Maybe it's covered in the "doping in other sports" thread? Nike Oregon Project/Salazar finally getting some overdue scrutiny.

Doctor in that link above has denied experimenting for a long time. He used the Fuentes claim of "elite athletic training is not healthy. I help the athletes be healthy." Now, it turns out he was experimenting with athletes.
 
Re: Sky

The Hitch said:
To be fair, the guy ahead of Thomas today is even more ridiculous. I thought Paolini was old ages ago :eek:
Paolini more ridiculous than Thomas?! What race did you see? :O
luckyboy said:
Richard Moore @richardmoore73 6m
Some interesting stuff in Sunday Times today about British athletes and possible abuse of thyroid medication. Behind paywall.
Anybody see this?
Haven't seen it, but first thought was Kreuziger.
 
Re: Sky

The Hitch said:
To be fair, the guy ahead of Thomas today is even more ridiculous. I thought Paolini was old ages ago :eek:
He barely hung on for most of the race and made an opportunistic attack. Thomas chased down every attack for literally 50 km and still almost closed the last attack.

He is absurd. Shades of Stannard earlier this year. I used to think it was just Wiggins, Froome and Porte who were juiced, and was half convinced they were doing it on their own. I think it's clear that this team is absurdly jacked to the gills this year in a way they've not been before.

It's a joke.
 
Re: Sky

red_flanders said:
The Hitch said:
To be fair, the guy ahead of Thomas today is even more ridiculous. I thought Paolini was old ages ago :eek:
He barely hung on for most of the race and made an opportunistic attack. Thomas chased down every attack for literally 50 km and still almost closed the last attack.

He is absurd. Shades of Stannard earlier this year. I used to think it was just Wiggins, Froome and Porte who were juiced, and was half convinced they were doing it on their own. I think it's clear that this team is absurdly jacked to the gills this year in a way they've not been before.

It's a joke.
The last couple of guys left were wisely waiting for Thomas to close the gap and would not get off his wheel or help. He had no choice. He's done well at the classics from the second try.

How clean is he? No idea. None. Do I have doubts he's clean? Yes. The federation encourages it.

If he goes from a incremental improvement classics man to a grand tour champion, then, of course, the evidence is overwelming because that happens exactly no time in a clean environment.
 
Re: Sky

DirtyWorks said:
red_flanders said:
The Hitch said:
To be fair, the guy ahead of Thomas today is even more ridiculous. I thought Paolini was old ages ago :eek:
He barely hung on for most of the race and made an opportunistic attack. Thomas chased down every attack for literally 50 km and still almost closed the last attack.

He is absurd. Shades of Stannard earlier this year. I used to think it was just Wiggins, Froome and Porte who were juiced, and was half convinced they were doing it on their own. I think it's clear that this team is absurdly jacked to the gills this year in a way they've not been before.

It's a joke.
The last couple of guys left were wisely waiting for Thomas to close the gap and would not get off his wheel or help. He had no choice. He's done well at the classics from the second try.

How clean is he? No idea. None. Do I have doubts he's clean? Yes. The federation encourages it.

If he goes from a incremental improvement classics man to a grand tour champion, then, of course, the evidence is overwelming because that happens exactly no time in a clean environment.
Taking his performance at Paris Nice, and Froome's sudden loss of form we may not have to wait very long (only a little sarcastic).
 
Re:

luckyboy said:
Richard Moore @richardmoore73 6m
Some interesting stuff in Sunday Times today about British athletes and possible abuse of thyroid medication. Behind paywall.
Anybody see this?
Well no, since i consider Moore to be an even more evil version of Ligget. But in any case, I consider all of this legit medicine abuse to be a waste of time. Evey respectable source from within the doping world (Ashenden, Pound, Bassons) all say that there are still major drugs being used in cycling. Going after Sky for thyroid med abuse is like going after John Gotti for speeding.

Its a deliberate ploy I think from the hacks to distract from the real drugs their golden geese are using by making it out to be just a few extra doses, (grey area) of small time meds.
 
Re: Sky

DirtyWorks said:
The last couple of guys left were wisely waiting for Thomas to close the gap and would not get off his wheel or help. He had no choice. He's done well at the classics from the second try.

How clean is he? No idea. None. Do I have doubts he's clean? Yes. The federation encourages it.

If he goes from a incremental improvement classics man to a grand tour champion, then, of course, the evidence is overwelming because that happens exactly no time in a clean environment.
The last several guys waited for him to close down the attacks because he was absurdly stronger than everyone else in the group and they all could see it better than we can on the TV. No one in their right mind was going to chase down an attack with him going the way he was. Of course he had a choice, but he was so strong he chose to chase everything down anyway. It would be regarded as idiotic tactics for even a doped rider, shades of crazy Ludo, but he was so strong it worked anyway.

No one is that strong. I've been watching cycling for 35 years. You just don't see that kind of situation play out. It's absurd. This isn't the second coming of Merckx we're talking about, he's been a decent but unremarkable rider.

Overwhelming evidence? I don't know. Obvious doper? Obviously.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
luckyboy said:
Richard Moore @richardmoore73 6m
Some interesting stuff in Sunday Times today about British athletes and possible abuse of thyroid medication. Behind paywall.
Anybody see this?
Well no, since i consider Moore to be an even more evil version of Ligget. But in any case, I consider all of this legit medicine abuse to be a waste of time. Evey respectable source from within the doping world (Ashenden, Pound, Bassons) all say that there are still major drugs being used in cycling. Going after Sky for thyroid med abuse is like going after John Gotti for speeding.

Its a deliberate ploy I think from the hacks to distract from the real drugs their golden geese are using by making it out to be just a few extra doses, (grey area) of small time meds.
This comment is spot on. I think people here are naively thinking that only a couple of drugs are being used, maybe some blood bags. I have a mate who is a body builder and gave me an insight on what the IFBB guys use. He rattled off about 20 different types of drugs to do one thing or another, and counteract this with that.

These bodybuilders are obviously trying to do something differently with their bodies, but they aren't exactly worried about getting caught by WADA. Masking would add even more drugs to the stack. I really think that 99% of people here would have no idea on what is being used, or what even exists.

He did also say that less is more too, and overdoing the dosages won't help. It's about the mixture, the timing, and amounts, which is why you need top doctors.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Foxxy is on record as not believing in Sky or Froome's cleanliness at all, actually, but wanting to redress the balance a bit given the perceived bias of the Clinic. Their way of achieving this is partly by deprecating the case against Sky or attacking the more rabid anti-Sky posters,
Partly agree. I dont in the way you say I attack rabid anti-Sky posters. Never did. Just do defensive counter-attacks now and then if needed...

Libertine Seguros said:
but mainly by sideswiping every discussion in sight, whether it relates to Sky or not, to point out that actually everybody is fine and no problem except Chris Horner and Daniel Díaz.
Not fully true. It just seems like because I am basically the only one pointing out the absurdest ever performances (mostly those by Horner riding half-dead) in comparison to the allegedly absurdest performances by Froome, Porte, Nieve, GT, Poels, or who the heck else is the newest evil sky bot...
And my sideswiping may come to only 50 posts (not counting the back-and forth that followed my well thought opening sidetrack posts now and then). Now compare this 50 posts to the thousands when Sky riders are named totally off-topic in other threads.
 
Actually Froome is the one who has been riding "half dead" considering he was doing so while fighting half a dozen potentially deadly diseases at once, including a nightmare undestructable never before discovered strain of bilharzia that proves itself immune to cures that was regularly leaving him paralysed in bed for weeks at a time.

As for being the only one to point out Horner was doping, just stop :eek:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
luckyboy said:
Richard Moore @richardmoore73 6m
Some interesting stuff in Sunday Times today about British athletes and possible abuse of thyroid medication. Behind paywall.
Anybody see this?
Well no, since i consider Moore to be an even more evil version of Ligget. But in any case, I consider all of this legit medicine abuse to be a waste of time. Evey respectable source from within the doping world (Ashenden, Pound, Bassons) all say that there are still major drugs being used in cycling. Going after Sky for thyroid med abuse is like going after John Gotti for speeding.

Its a deliberate ploy I think from the hacks to distract from the real drugs their golden geese are using by making it out to be just a few extra doses, (grey area) of small time meds.
Sunday Times now look really 'tough' on their heroes.
Like those Walsh pieces about how hiring Leinders and JTL were really sloppy things to do, but of course no indications of any wrongdoing on the part of Sky.

interesting post @observer
 
Re:

The Hitch said:
Actually Froome is the one who has been riding "half dead" considering he was doing so while fighting half a dozen potentially deadly diseases at once, including a nightmare undestructable never before discovered strain of bilharzia that proves itself immune to cures that was regularly leaving him paralysed in bed for weeks at a time.

As for being the only one to point out Horner was doping, just stop :eek:
Someone, I think it was Kirby this weekend pointed out how ill the Dawg seems to get. Totally blind to any illness he has. Just seems to think its one of those things.

As for Moore. The bloke is a fool. I would guess the British Athletes mean more track and field than they do cyclists. For him all British Cyclists are cleans and all his merry followers are Sky Fans.

The amount of fornication over Thomas this weekend by some is just sickening "Oooo come on G. Wow G you fell off and managed to jump the gap like Superman" Pffft. Where is Sir Brad Wiggo, winner of PR 2015. :rolleyes:
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I can't remember whether it was yesterdays stage or the day befores in Catalunya, the less Pro-Sky(marginally) commentator almost called out Froome's excuse of dead legs or whatever was wrong with him for being shelled out the back on a teeny weeny climb...I say almost cause the other *** that was commentating with him, immediately blathered on a about Froomey....and how he knows his own body....blah blah blah snore....
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Well the old I will sue the pants off of you has worked in the sport of cycling before....bit harsh if you were only pointing out bias....
 
Re: Re:

observer said:
This comment is spot on. I think people here are naively thinking that only a couple of drugs are being used, maybe some blood bags. I have a mate who is a body builder and gave me an insight on what the IFBB guys use. He rattled off about 20 different types of drugs to do one thing or another, and counteract this with that.

These bodybuilders are obviously trying to do something differently with their bodies, but they aren't exactly worried about getting caught by WADA. Masking would add even more drugs to the stack. I really think that 99% of people here would have no idea on what is being used, or what even exists.

He did also say that less is more too, and overdoing the dosages won't help. It's about the mixture, the timing, and amounts, which is why you need top doctors.
Yes, but, the point is the IFBB is enabling the doping. Just don't fail the IQ test.

The focus on dopers as lone "bad athletes" is convenient as it distracts from the fact the federations themselves are managing results with the system designed for exactly this purpose.
 
Re:

Miburo said:
What the **** did they give Thomas? Are they trying to make a new Cancellara?
He's like a 15 kg lighter version of Cancellara...

It's quite remarkable how someone as skinny as G can be the strongest guy in a flat, cold race with so much wind. Never seen anything like it. Almost as absurd as in the 90s when the 80+ kg guys suddenly were winning MTFs.
 
Re: Re:

maltiv said:
Miburo said:
What the **** did they give Thomas? Are they trying to make a new Cancellara?
He's like a 15 kg lighter version of Cancellara...

It's quite remarkable how someone as skinny as G can be the strongest guy in a flat, cold race with so much wind. Never seen anything like it. Almost as absurd as in the 90s when the 80+ kg guys suddenly were winning MTFs.
Apparently he's not talking to Wiggins because gaining weight (muscle) matters for the classics... Something about power... Except none of that applies to Thomas.

I should have talked more with Geraint.

All this Sky science/precision and none of it makes any sense.

Interesting team politics coming up real soon.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Re: Re:

maltiv said:
Miburo said:
What the **** did they give Thomas? Are they trying to make a new Cancellara?
He's like a 15 kg lighter version of Cancellara...

It's quite remarkable how someone as skinny as G can be the strongest guy in a flat, cold race with so much wind. Never seen anything like it. Almost as absurd as in the 90s when the 80+ kg guys suddenly were winning MTFs.
I guess Paolini might disagree with who was the strongest. And that wind deposited 'G' in the ditch. Anyways always been a great rider, and simply realising the potential he has shown throughout his career, when he manages to stay upright. Good luck to him, hope he does do the double, looking forward to the grinding of teeth in here.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Stunning race yesterday, full of intensity, drama and huge heroics by those on the road. I salute them all for riding through such challenging and dangerous conditions, showing heart, commitment and an ability to suffer beyond most mortals.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Re:

JimmyFingers said:
Stunning race yesterday, full of intensity, drama and huge heroics by those on the road. I salute them all for riding through such challenging and dangerous conditions, showing heart, commitment and an ability to suffer beyond most mortals.
cool story but what does this have to do with doping?
 
Jul 17, 2012
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That there's more to getting to the sharp end of a race in such unholy conditions than how much EPO you've taken. And from a personal point to view to try to inject some positivity into this dour, joyless place when discussing an amazing race.
 
Re: Re:

JimmyFingers said:
I guess Paolini might disagree with who was the strongest.
Yeah, he might. Except that he didn't. In fact he came right out and said he wasn't.

“This is a surprise but I’m so happy to have won,” Paolini said. “I don’t think I was the strongest but I played my cards. I knew they’d be waiting for the sprint and so I tried to get away with five kilometres to go.
Not that it wasn't obvious to anyone watching...without an agenda that is.
 
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