Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[TailWindHome]

Re: Re:

None of this makes Thomas's "transformation" "absurd"

So without answering any of the questions about wiggins transformation or froome transformation you now deflect back to "none of this is anything to do with Thomas"

Do we dare ask whether you are just ignoring those posts or just don't have an answer - because there is no answer and they were both ridiculous and now GT will prove the same over the next year or so.

Other track riders that made it into superstar GT winners - Err none!!

Talk of Wiggins and Froome were a deflection from the Thomas discussion.

I was asked one question and I answered it.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Other track riders that made it into superstar GT winners - Err none!!

Hugo Koblet?

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Other track riders that made it into superstar GT winners - Err none!!

Hugo Koblet?

Berzin, the Wiggo prototype

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

7 Swiss championships, 1 third and 2 seconds at the World Championships.

Koblet won twice as many GTs as Wiggins. Wiggins is only a "superstar" because of his track success, he's not a "GT superstar". It's worthwhile remembering that open road bike racing was banned in Britain until, I think, 1959 and this had a massive effect on the development of the sport. It was not like racing on the continent, still isn't, and lottery funding for Olympic athletes mean track racing in Britain is very attractive. It's not so attractive on the continent as road racing is where the money is.

Merckx, Rominger, Indurain and Moser all did well on the track setting the world hour record and even before Wiggins' success on the road if you had had to pick a track cyclist to have a go at the record in the past 10 odd years Wiggins would have been the number 1 pick.


Wiggins may well be doping, his change was pretty spectacular, but he won the Tour doing exactly what you would expect him to do as the type of rider he is.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Lemond and Francesco Moser

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Merckx, Rominger, Indurain and Moser all did well on the track setting the world hour record and even before Wiggins' success on the road if you had had to pick a track cyclist to have a go at the record in the past 10 odd years Wiggins would have been the number 1 pick.


Wiggins may well be doping, his change was pretty spectacular, but he won the Tour doing exactly what you would expect him to do as the type of rider he is.

I would have expected him to finish in the back of the grupetto, as he did for years, being the type of rider he is.

Merckx was beyond good at everything. He's not an example of a "track" rider, he's an example of a "legend" who dominated every kind of racing he ever participated in. GT, sprints, 6-days, track...whatever.

Wiggins was a track rider who couldn't climb. Then he became a climber all of a sudden. Big difference. Not arguing your post, just adding some perspective.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Wiggins may well be doping, his change was pretty spectacular, but he won the Tour doing exactly what you would expect him to do as the type of rider he is.

Being the 2nd strongest climber in the race?

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Hugo Koblet is a one of cycling greats, Wiggins is nowhere near him. Koblet was able to beat Fausto Coppi in his prime, that speaks enough...

 

[ray j willings]

I think you underestimate Brad " I now call him Brad" he lost that weight and it made a great difference to his climbing ability and he even managed to ITT better than he ever did. It just shows what laying off the pies and beers can do

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Hugo Koblet is a one of cycling greats, Wiggins is nowhere near him. Koblet was able to beat Fausto Coppi in his prime, that speaks enough...

If he wins roubaix he's one of cyclings greatest ever all rounders.

 

[danielovichdk2]

Re: Sky

Not even in top 20!

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Hugo Koblet is a one of cycling greats, Wiggins is nowhere near him. Koblet was able to beat Fausto Coppi in his prime, that speaks enough...

If he wins roubaix he's one of cyclings greatest ever all rounders.

no

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Hugo Koblet is a one of cycling greats, Wiggins is nowhere near him. Koblet was able to beat Fausto Coppi in his prime, that speaks enough...

If he wins roubaix he's one of cyclings greatest ever all rounders.

is being a good descender and showing consistency on the road for more than one season not part of being a great all rounder?

 

[Nick C.]

Re: Re:

Other track riders that made it into superstar GT winners - Err none!!

Hugo Koblet?

Jacques Anquetil comes to mind, but those were different times.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The sponsorship deal with Pinarello must be under some pressure to deliver more sales.

PInarello's OEM puts an elastomer on top of the seat stays and they've invented a new bicycle never seen before that will change the classics forever..... according to Sir Brad...

Good thing I am not eating dinner.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

The sponsorship deal with Pinarello must be under some pressure to deliver more sales.

PInarello's OEM puts an elastomer on top of the seat stays and they've invented a new bicycle never seen before that will change the classics forever..... according to Sir Brad...

Good thing I am not eating dinner.

I wonder if people discovered how marketing PR stuff works just today
it's obvious that they HAVE to say the bike is the best, a step up, marginal gain etc etc

 

[red_flanders]

I actually think it looks like a good design for the race. I would put more stock in this as a marginal gain than anything else they've dreamt up.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

The sponsorship deal with Pinarello must be under some pressure to deliver more sales.

PInarello's OEM puts an elastomer on top of the seat stays and they've invented a new bicycle never seen before that will change the classics forever..... according to Sir Brad...

Good thing I am not eating dinner.

I wonder if people discovered how marketing PR stuff works just today
it's obvious that they HAVE to say the bike is the best, a step up, marginal gain etc etc

And all the Sky fans will eat it up of course not knowing that design has been around for at least 15 years that I know of. Moots YBB. More recently Parlee came out with one last year.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

And all the Sky fans will eat it up of course not knowing that design has been around for at least 15 years that I know of. Moots YBB. More recently Parlee came out with one last year.

Honest question, have Moots and Parlee been ridden over the Roubaix parcours at any level? Seems like the right balance of comfort and efficiency for the pavé.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Sky

If he wins roubaix he's one of cyclings greatest ever all rounders.

no

Not even in top 20!

You know, what, if he wins, he probably is. To have both a win in the flattest classic, and the most dominant stage race season ever.
TT world and olympic championship as well as one of the highest VAM's ever recorded.

Of course he doped and is a massive hypocrite. Lied on behalf of Lance. Continues to lionize Pantani, Basso, Simpson, while "speaking out" against easy targets.
What's worse he's a bully who needlessly insults people in the press everytime he finds himself in a bad mood, and behaved towards Landis and later Kimmage in ways no remotely moral person could find anything but disgusting.
From what we've seen he behaves that way in private too, and a lot, since ultimately he's always in a bad mood, even when he gets what he wants.

But he's not the first bully or scumbag to truimph in the sport.

And while he doped, so have most champions over the last 20 years and beyond. If one doesn't count Wiggins, should he win a PR on top of his mountain and tt truimphs and track truimphs, as one of the greatest all rounders, then one can't count Pantani or Contador as great climbers, can't count Indurain (another doper who Wiggins seems totally ok with) as a great tter, can't count Boonen or Canc as great classics riders etc.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I want Wiggings, Thomas Geraint and Stan the Man do a Mapei one two three at Roubaix. That would be the icing on the cake for cleans cycling.

 

[ebandit]

Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Hugo Koblet is a one of cycling greats, Wiggins is nowhere near him. Koblet was able to beat Fausto Coppi in his prime, that speaks enough...

If he wins roubaix he's one of cyclings greatest ever all rounders.

is being a good descender and showing consistency on the road for more than one season not part of being a great all rounder?

remember wiggo leading cav out for the sprint..............should a 'real' all rounder have beaten cav?

Mark L

 

[S2Sturges]

Re:

I want Wiggings, Thomas Geraint and Stan the Man do a Mapei one two three at Roubaix. That would be the icing on the cake for cleans cycling.

Sadly, it's not beyond the realms of belief... either PR or the Ronde .... I remember that PR you mentioned, it was ludicrous, even in that era.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet - ok he did ride on the track I grant you.

I should have said others who have had considerable success on the track

I really dont think Wiggo or GT would be happy to be compared to someone whose major track achievement was a couple of swiss pursuit championships in the post war years.

Hugo Koblet is a one of cycling greats, Wiggins is nowhere near him. Koblet was able to beat Fausto Coppi in his prime, that speaks enough...

If he wins roubaix he's one of cyclings greatest ever all rounders.

is being a good descender and showing consistency on the road for more than one season not part of being a great all rounder?

remember wiggo leading cav out for the sprint..............should a 'real' all rounder have beaten cav?

Mark L

dunno.
just don't see him as a great allrounder.
descending is one of the most spectacular, heroic, and romantic aspects of cycling.
Wiggins sucks at it.