Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JRanton]

For a team with such a big budget that is apparently doping they aren't doing very well. Just 2 grand tour wins (from 16 attempts) and 0 monuments (from 29 attempts) in five and a half years.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

For a team with such a big budget that is apparently doping they aren't doing very well. Just 2 grand tour wins (from 16 attempts) and 0 monuments (from 29 attempts) in five and a half years.

If you can't immediately see like 50 massive flaws in this arguments then I think I may have overrated you as a poster.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Most people in the NORMAL world think cyclists dope, all of them. They probably are not wrong.

Even Cheng Ji?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

do you never get bored of creating new accounts and repeating the same old trolling for the millionth time?

I get that you're upset people think sky are doping but maybe you should try to accept it and move on with your life.

i get that you're upset that people don't think sky are doping, but maybe you should try and accept it and move on with your life.

p.s. i'm not convinced either way.

Most people do seem to think sky are doping though. Creating multiple accounts to argue the opposite won't suddenly mean people think they are clean.

Most people HERE seem to think Sky are doping: this isn't the normal world

Oh, you want to argue the average cycling fan thinks sky are clean? Go on then. Lets hear it.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

For a team with such a big budget that is apparently doping they aren't doing very well. Just 2 grand tour wins (from 16 attempts) and 0 monuments (from 29 attempts) in five and a half years.

If you can't immediately see like 50 massive flaws in this arguments then I think I may have overrated you as a poster.

Seriously though, even if we say that Sky haven't invested heavily on classics riders (which I agree) the Grand Tour record really isn't that impressive, is it?

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

For a team with such a big budget that is apparently doping they aren't doing very well. Just 2 grand tour wins (from 16 attempts) and 0 monuments (from 29 attempts) in five and a half years.

If you can't immediately see like 50 massive flaws in this arguments then I think I may have overrated you as a poster.

Seriously though, even if we say that Sky haven't invested heavily on classics riders (which I agree) the Grand Tour record really isn't that impressive, is it?

A relatively new organization who had zero success in the first few years in GT's bringing 2, maybe now 3 pack-fodder riders (literally, not any kind of exaggeration) to the top of stage racing with 2 TdF wins is incredibly impressive.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

For a team with such a big budget that is apparently doping they aren't doing very well. Just 2 grand tour wins (from 16 attempts) and 0 monuments (from 29 attempts) in five and a half years.

If you can't immediately see like 50 massive flaws in this arguments then I think I may have overrated you as a poster.

Seriously though, even if we say that Sky haven't invested heavily on classics riders (which I agree) the Grand Tour record really isn't that impressive, is it?

Its not worse than anyone else.

They have 6 podiums which over the period they have been around is equal to Movistar/Caisse and better than everyone else. Considering only 1 of Movistar's was a win and only 1 was at the TDF, + one was a fluke breakaway, I would say Sky are decidedly more impressive.

If you want to just look at wins then yes they have 1 less than Saxo and Astana over this period, and its equal at 2-2-2 if we factor in doping disqualifications.

If we expand to other WT stage races Sky have by far the most of everyone over the period and its not close, so its no stretch at all to say they are the best stage race team of the era.

If we are talking about what is impressive then doing 1-2 at the Tour de France while winning 6 stages is definitely something that comes to mind.
If we are talking about impressive, getting Chris Froome inside the top 20 of a gt let alone having him win the TDF by 5 minutes and take 3 stages.

But anyway they don't have to be the best or even mediocre. Euskaltel were around 2 decades and never got a gt win. Lampre have been around 11 years longer than Sky and have 1 gt win (giro). Rabobank accomplished as many gt wins in 17 years as Sky did in 3 and none was the TDF. There's probably way better examples of this around. Most teams that doped don't do well. Sky have done much better than pretty much anyone.

And no they don't have to be doping everyone on the team. As Ashenden says its small pockets that dope.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Sky

Agree with The Hitch, but I'd like to point out that for a team that is portraying itself as cutting edge, know it all, well they don't seem to cover the basics, do they? The stupid two minute penalty ( they don't know the rules) and now leaving the leader isolated and lose the Giro. Amateurish...

Probably why they want the earpieces. Because they have no clue about racing. And then you have to wonder how to explain the successes: if it's not brains, it must be muscles, or something?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Sky

Probably why they want the earpieces. Because they have no clue about racing. And then you have to wonder how to explain the successes: if it's not brains, it must be muscles, or something?

Tactics and bike handling? Unless it's wet, of course. And as long as said tactics are, "rider faster than everyone else".

 

[alspacka]

Re: Sky

Agree with The Hitch, but I'd like to point out that for a team that is portraying itself as cutting edge, know it all, well they don't seem to cover the basics, do they? The stupid two minute penalty ( they don't know the rules) and now leaving the leader isolated and lose the Giro. Amateurish...

Probably why they want the earpieces. Because they have no clue about racing. And then you have to wonder how to explain the successes: if it's not brains, it must be muscles, or something?

As someone put it so wonderfully earlier, watt fundamentalism.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Posted in the Giro thread that DA selected as his favourite rider - lance Armstrong.

Its quite interesting to me that for a team that was allegedly so anti doping and leading the cycling peloton on the anti doping front, pretty much everyone on the team from their TDF victories idolized Lance Armstrong.

Wiggins -biggest Lance fan ever.
Brailsford - modelled his team on Armstrong (even calling it UK Postal) and hired all of Lance's staff.
G Thomas - big Armstrong fan and defender. Complained that USADA should leave Lance alone.
Davide Appolinio - another Lance Armstrong fan.
JTL - another guy who selected Lance as his favourite rider.

There was also that rider, forget which one who after the reasoned decision tweeted something about Lance being a hero and DB made him go on a PR - "actually I hate Lance" Tour the next day.

Alex Dowsett

Yes, the same Alex Dowsett who rode for Trek-Livestrong as an U23

 

[blackcat]

Re: Sky

Agree with The Hitch, but I'd like to point out that for a team that is portraying itself as cutting edge, know it all, well they don't seem to cover the basics, do they? The stupid two minute penalty ( they don't know the rules) and now leaving the leader isolated and lose the Giro. Amateurish...

Probably why they want the earpieces. Because they have no clue about racing. And then you have to wonder how to explain the successes: if it's not brains, it must be muscles, or something?

I have some conspiracy, I wonder if they are not looking to give Porte full 100% marginal gains support, when the esprit de corps and <unsaid> subtext, Richie is going to Matt White and GreenEdge next year on big money.

Remmeber how JV sidelined the Meyer brothers at Garmin first sign 15 months out, the were off to GreenEdge.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Yes, the same Alex Dowsett who rode for Trek-Livestrong as an U23 ;)

ja, with Axel as a DS
like Phinney, Brown, Craddock, Dombro, Stuyven, Bennett, Bewley, Sergent, etc etc

 

[thehook]

Guess the Marginal Gains : Motorhome: Pineapple juice: Skinsuits: Warm Downs: Own Pillows: Personal seats on the Bus: Altitude Training: Winter Swim Program: Riding to the Numbers: Swim Coach: Track Training: Fast Track TUE: Cortisone: Inhalers : Xenon: Zorzoli: Henoa's Blood Profile Study: Cooksons Kid:Lienders: Etc Etc Etc

Did not add up to much today for Little Richie. SKY: "Dam what Kinda BS can we come up with now"

P.S. Sorry I forgot How could I forget this Marginal Gain?!?rum Roll Please:

Brailsfords Genius!!!!!!

 

[coinneach]

Re: Re:

do you never get bored of creating new accounts and repeating the same old trolling for the millionth time?

I get that you're upset people think sky are doping but maybe you should try to accept it and move on with your life.

i get that you're upset that people don't think sky are doping, but maybe you should try and accept it and move on with your life.

p.s. i'm not convinced either way.

Most people do seem to think sky are doping though. Creating multiple accounts to argue the opposite won't suddenly mean people think they are clean.

Most people HERE seem to think Sky are doping: this isn't the normal world

Oh, you want to argue the average cycling fan thinks sky are clean? Go on then. Lets hear it.

You think the clinic is populated by the average cycling fan ?

 

[mrhender]

What is the sponsor situation...?

Seem to remember something about it expiring this year..

Maybe they have extended?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Guess the Marginal Gains : Motorhome: Pineapple juice: Skinsuits: Warm Downs: Own Pillows: Personal seats on the Bus: Altitude Training: Winter Swim Program: Riding to the Numbers: Swim Coach: Track Training: Fast Track TUE: Cortisone: Inhalers : Xenon: Zorzoli: Henoa's Blood Profile Study: Cooksons Kid:Lienders: Etc Etc Etc

Did not add up to much today for Little Richie. SKY: "Dam what Kinda BS can we come up with now"

P.S. Sorry I forgot How could I forget this Marginal Gain?!?rum Roll Please:

Brailsfords Genius!!!!!!

they need the wetsuits. remember, kerrison was a swimming coach. so what about the wetsuits, why were they left behind over the channel?

 

[Irondan]

Re: Sky

Agree with The Hitch, but I'd like to point out that for a team that is portraying itself as cutting edge, know it all, well they don't seem to cover the basics, do they? The stupid two minute penalty ( they don't know the rules) and now leaving the leader isolated and lose the Giro. Amateurish...

Probably why they want the earpieces. Because they have no clue about racing. And then you have to wonder how to explain the successes: if it's not brains, it must be muscles, or something?

I have some conspiracy, I wonder if they are not looking to give Porte full 100% marginal gains support, when the esprit de corps and <unsaid> subtext, Richie is going to Matt White and GreenEdge next year on big money.

Remmeber how JV sidelined the Meyer brothers at Garmin first sign 15 months out, the were off to GreenEdge.

Right, the support lil richie got in stage 14 was nonexistent! DB's plan to ruin porte before he signs with greenedge is working perfectly...

 

[pastronef]

Re: Sky

Agree with The Hitch, but I'd like to point out that for a team that is portraying itself as cutting edge, know it all, well they don't seem to cover the basics, do they? The stupid two minute penalty ( they don't know the rules) and now leaving the leader isolated and lose the Giro. Amateurish...

Probably why they want the earpieces. Because they have no clue about racing. And then you have to wonder how to explain the successes: if it's not brains, it must be muscles, or something?

I have some conspiracy, I wonder if they are not looking to give Porte full 100% marginal gains support, when the esprit de corps and <unsaid> subtext, Richie is going to Matt White and GreenEdge next year on big money.

Remmeber how JV sidelined the Meyer brothers at Garmin first sign 15 months out, the were off to GreenEdge.

Cameron Meyer won TDU 2011, and rode and finished the Giro in 2011
he signed for GreenEdge for 2012 during that summer.
they got a bit sidelined for the 2nd half of the season. rode Danmark and Beijing

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

[quote="Singer01"i get that you're upset that people don't think sky are doping, but maybe you should try and accept it and move on with your life.

p.s. i'm not convinced either way.

Most people do seem to think sky are doping though. Creating multiple accounts to argue the opposite won't suddenly mean people think they are clean.

Most people HERE seem to think Sky are doping: this isn't the normal world

Oh, you want to argue the average cycling fan thinks sky are clean? Go on then. Lets hear it.

You think the clinic is populated by the average cycling fan ?[/quote]

I said nothing of the sort. I did say the averag fan doubts sky. You claimed otherwise but hoh dont seem to, when called upon, have any arguments to back this up.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

For a team with such a big budget that is apparently doping they aren't doing very well. Just 2 grand tour wins (from 16 attempts) and 0 monuments (from 29 attempts) in five and a half years.

If you can't immediately see like 50 massive flaws in this arguments then I think I may have overrated you as a poster.

Seriously though, even if we say that Sky haven't invested heavily on classics riders (which I agree) the Grand Tour record really isn't that impressive, is it?

Its not worse than anyone else.

They have 6 podiums which over the period they have been around is equal to Movistar/Caisse and better than everyone else. Considering only 1 of Movistar's was a win and only 1 was at the TDF, + one was a fluke breakaway, I would say Sky are decidedly more impressive.

If you want to just look at wins then yes they have 1 less than Saxo and Astana over this period, and its equal at 2-2-2 if we factor in doping disqualifications.

If we expand to other WT stage races Sky have by far the most of everyone over the period and its not close, so its no stretch at all to say they are the best stage race team of the era.

If we are talking about what is impressive then doing 1-2 at the Tour de France while winning 6 stages is definitely something that comes to mind.
If we are talking about impressive, getting Chris Froome inside the top 20 of a gt let alone having him win the TDF by 5 minutes and take 3 stages.

But anyway they don't have to be the best or even mediocre. Euskaltel were around 2 decades and never got a gt win. Lampre have been around 11 years longer than Sky and have 1 gt win (giro). Rabobank accomplished as many gt wins in 17 years as Sky did in 3 and none was the TDF. There's probably way better examples of this around. Most teams that doped don't do well. Sky have done much better than pretty much anyone.

And no they don't have to be doping everyone on the team. As Ashenden says its small pockets that dope.

I just realized I forgot Urans giro podium. So that's 7 podiums in 5 seasons, more than anyone else.

I wouldn't say that's unimpressive.

 

[Miburo]

Question.

I made my first ever comment on twitter about cycling. It was to a sky fan who was saying contador doped after seeing his ITT.

And although she's prob right, i asked her if chris froome his evolution was good for clean cycling?

She blocked me and an hour later Froome also blocked me Lol

Happened to someone else too? Mentioned his name once, he must be often on twitter.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Question.

I made my first ever comment on twitter about cycling. It was to a sky fan who was saying contador doped after seeing his ITT.

And although she's prob right, i asked her if chris froome his evolution was good for clean cycling?

She blocked me and an hour later Froome also blocked me Lol

Happened to someone else too? Mentioned his name once, he must be often on twitter.

It's Cound I think, she just checks every tweet that mentions Froome and blocks the people who are negative.

And she also randomly blocks Contador fans who never even mention Froome

 

[Electress]

Really? Hey, how do I find out if Froome / Cound has blocked me???!?!?

 

[the sceptic]

easy, just tweet something negative about Froome. I was blocked a long time ago and also by Walsh.