Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-repeats-call-for-implementation-of-power-data-passport

So French tv is estimating Froomes power at 7.04watts/kg on La PSM

......based on froome being 71kg

I'm almost, but not quite, feeling a bit sorry for Froome, with the amount of totally unmitigated horsesh!t that is being thrown at him.

This is easy for sky to end. It is called transparency. That Sky wont shows they are up to no good.

Nico Roche told Paul Kimmage in an interview that he weighs himself 5times a day. Weight is such a key part of Sky's marginal gains you reckon Brailsford (master of detail) would know Froome's.

 

[Chaddy]

Re: Sky

Do you think he should know it off the top of his head?

 

[SlickMongoose]

Maybe there should be a weigh-in before the start of every stage, like in boxing.

And we could have the ridiculous over-the-top staring matches and trash talk as well.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Sky

Do you think he should know it off the top of his head?

"We have that data and I can get it for you"

"I don't know"

"None of your business"

What he says is nowhere near as telling as what is obvious from what he says.

1. the fine detail narrative is bs
2. he's not interested in being transparent
3. all of the above

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-repeats-call-for-implementation-of-power-data-passport

So French tv is estimating Froomes power at 7.04watts/kg on La PSM

......based on froome being 71kg

I'm almost, but not quite, feeling a bit sorry for Froome, with the amount of totally unmitigated horsesh!t that is being thrown at him.

I feel more sorry for the rational thinking fans and riders who want to race clean, who are having significantly -- orders of magnitude -- more *** thrown at them by Sky, Froome and that cabal.

 

[bigcog]

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

 

[Saint Unix]

Of course Brailsford knows Froome's weight. He just doesn't want anyone outside of the team to know.

It's probably quite a bit lower than the 69kg reported on the team website. I'm 69kg and 6cm shorter than Froome. I reckon I'd need to drop into the 50s before I'd look as emaciated as him. I'd be shocked if Froome was more than 65kg.

If Froome's weight is in fact much lower than reported, that would also change the w/kg values of the leaked power files towards being more extraterrestrial as well.



But maybe Froome plus the electrical motor and batteries add up to 69kg? Just kidding.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Another view on his motivations:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

Do you think he should know it off the top of his head?

Since they introduced the skeletal rider syndrome, yes, I wouldn't expect him to know Stannards or Roches, but I would expect him to know his top 2 or 3 riders weights as that is part of the whole methodology, the science of sport, ALLEGEDLY..........

Bet he knows the exact amounts of 'juice' Froome is on..........

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Another view on his motivations:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK.

Keep digging...

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Data transparency--and the banishment of riders who fail to comply with it--would make cycling so much more interesting.

The antidoping aspect would be great--and great speculation for everybody. However streaming data at races would be nerd heaven. People would create programs that would analyze and compare the data with other riders and other races. Multiple analyses from multiple people in near real time! You could get a real feel for the dominant racers of the day.

The data would also work to level the playing field, because each team would know intimately the strengths and weaknesses of their opponents and would have teams of data scientists trying to figure out ways to make the other teams' favorites crack at an opportune time. Also, knowing that you are going to get data later would make it more likely that teams would try stuff in the race in an attempt not to gain an immediate tactical advantage, but to obtain data when their opponent responds.

Transparent data would be so awesome!

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Find a non UK/AngloSaxon sports scientist/doctor defending Sky please.............

Again thees guys keep saying that the power numbers and calculations are all hypothetical because you need to take A in to account and with B which cannot be quantified unless we can measure C and that is not possible yet.......

So if this is the case, Sky shouldn't have a problem releasing their riders details.........but they won't.........go figure.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Another view on his motivations:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK.

Keep digging...

Since almost none of the Brits seem to want to do it (like their US peers during the Armstrong era), others must...

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Another view on his motivations:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK.

Keep digging...

Since none of the Brits seem to want to do it (like their US peers during the Armstrong era), others must...

http://impact.ref.ac.uk/casestudies2/refservice.svc/GetCaseStudyPDF/42115 ...

Also the details you posted are out of date:

http://www.kent.ac.uk/sportsciences/staff/ERG%20Staff/m-burnley.html

 

[Sorped]

Re: Sky

Do you think he should know it off the top of his head?

Since they introduced the skeletal rider syndrome, yes, I wouldn't expect him to know Stannards or Roches, but I would expect him to know his top 2 or 3 riders weights as that is part of the whole methodology, the science of sport, ALLEGEDLY..........

Bet he knows the exact amounts of 'juice' Froome is on..........

Absolutely agree with Benotti. With all the talk about marginal gains and tweaking things, knowing a riders weight is a given I think. How else would they be able to advise Froome of how many watts he should turn in order to not go in the red? I say get rid of power meters and/or radio contact, Froome would be lost.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

Another view on his motivations:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK.

Keep digging...

Since none of the Brits seem to want to do it (like their US peers during the Armstrong era), others must...

http://impact.ref.ac.uk/casestudies2/refservice.svc/GetCaseStudyPDF/42115 ...

Also the details you posted are out of date:

http://www.kent.ac.uk/sportsciences/staff/ERG%20Staff/m-burnley.html

Uhh...I copied and pasted HIS bio from HIS site...I'm not the one who needs to update...

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

http://impact.ref.ac.uk/casestudies2/refservice.svc/GetCaseStudyPDF/42115 ...

Also the details you posted are out of date:

http://www.kent.ac.uk/sportsciences/staff/ERG%20Staff/m-burnley.html

Uhh...I copied and pasted HIS bio from HIS site...I'm not the one who needs to update...

I expect better from a lawyer. You should read the first link I posted.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

http://impact.ref.ac.uk/casestudies2/refservice.svc/GetCaseStudyPDF/42115 ...

Also the details you posted are out of date:

http://www.kent.ac.uk/sportsciences/staff/ERG%20Staff/m-burnley.html

Uhh...I copied and pasted HIS bio from HIS site...I'm not the one who needs to update...

I expect better from a lawyer. You should read the first link I posted.

You didn't bother to read his site (which is where I took the quote). Why would I care a thing about what you posted if you're that lazy?...

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

http://impact.ref.ac.uk/casestudies2/refservice.svc/GetCaseStudyPDF/42115 ...

Also the details you posted are out of date:

http://www.kent.ac.uk/sportsciences/staff/ERG%20Staff/m-burnley.html

Uhh...I copied and pasted HIS bio from HIS site...I'm not the one who needs to update...

I expect better from a lawyer. You should read the first link I posted.

You didn't bother to read his site (which is where I took the quote). Why would I care a thing about what you posted if you're that lazy?...

Errr... Yes I did and you didn't post it.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

Errr... Yes I did and you didn't post it.

Errr...here's the weblink: https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/about/

I figured that the fact that it's 2015, someone vaguely familiar with the intertubes could work out that, on a blog posted by someone else, the section titled "About Dr Mark Burnley" might be a place where another poster got his information. Maybe only lawyers are such keen observers of intertubes things?

Anyway, here is the first line again, from that so well hidden information:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Errr... Yes I did and you didn't post it.

Errr...here's the weblink: https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/about/

I figured that the fact that it's 2015, someone vaguely familiar with the intertubes could work out that, on a blog posted by someone else, the section titled "About Dr Mark Burnley" might be a place where another poster got his information. Maybe only lawyers are such keen observers of intertubes things?

Anyway, here is the first line again, from that so well hidden information:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK

Bigcog posted it first, not you. I read the article and the bio then bothered to do 5 seconds searching on Google and found out the information was very out of date. If you are going to accuse someone of something you might actually want to do your research. You know, what with you being a lawyer and all.

I'm unsure why you're reposting the information, I obviously saw it as I pointed out it was wrong. I even read it on his site before you posted it here and found it to be wrong. Seems lawyers just take the first thing they read rather than check it out.

If you had read the link I posted you would see that he has actually been involved with people associated with Team Sky as he submitted that information to the REF, a much better piece of information to base accusations of bias on than "He's probably British".

Of course, you didn't. You decided to have an argument instead. Well done.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I'm talking about the reaction of people at the races, not on this forum. I've no idea what was or wasn't written here about Nibali's TDF win or their strength at the Giro! Give me a chance to go and read it!

What's also worth noting is that at every pro race I've been to in the last 5 years Sky have been the least accessible team. They've taken up the most space at some, fenced off so fans can't look at the bikes, erected screens at the 2012 Vuelta so nobody could see into their little area, and so on. At smaller races this has been less the case, however the space-hogging motorhome stuff is hardly surprising to most of us who've been to races.

You can argue that keeping the fans at arm's length to give the riders a bit more space and time to prepare in peace is a sensible strategy and could be a marginal gain. I get the benefit of it. But making them seen more distant and inaccessible to the fans in a sport where one of the selling points of the fan experience is the accessibility of riders also makes them seem aloof and less likable because you don't have the opportunity to gain that same connection to them.

Very true, then when you look at a team on the opposite end of the spectrum like Orica (who have Stephens and White as DS's and Simon Gerrans as their marquee rider!) you realise how this attitude effects the public's perception of a team.

They have their own skeletons but never get a single question

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

Errr... Yes I did and you didn't post it.

Errr...here's the weblink: https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/about/

I figured that the fact that it's 2015, someone vaguely familiar with the intertubes could work out that, on a blog posted by someone else, the section titled "About Dr Mark Burnley" might be a place where another poster got his information. Maybe only lawyers are such keen observers of intertubes things?

Anyway, here is the first line again, from that so well hidden information:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK

Bigcog posted it first, not you. I read the article and the bio then bothered to do 5 seconds searching on Google and found out the information was very out of date. If you are going to accuse someone of something you might actually want to do your research. You know, what with you being a lawyer and all.

I'm unsure why you're reposting the information, I obviously saw it as I pointed out it was wrong. I even read it on his site before you posted it here and found it to be wrong. Seems lawyers just take the first thing they read rather than check it out.

If you had read the link I posted you would see that he has actually been involved with people associated with Team Sky as he submitted that information to the REF, a much better piece of information to base accusations of bias on than "He's probably British".

Of course, you didn't. You decided to have an argument instead. Well done.

You really should read more carefully.

Past that, if he cannot be bothered to update his information, why should I bother to dig further. The fact that he's from the UK was really my point, and that point hasn't changed.

...and wait...I think you decided to have an argument too...

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Errr... Yes I did and you didn't post it.

Errr...here's the weblink: https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/about/

I figured that the fact that it's 2015, someone vaguely familiar with the intertubes could work out that, on a blog posted by someone else, the section titled "About Dr Mark Burnley" might be a place where another poster got his information. Maybe only lawyers are such keen observers of intertubes things?

Anyway, here is the first line again, from that so well hidden information:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK

Bigcog posted it first, not you. I read the article and the bio then bothered to do 5 seconds searching on Google and found out the information was very out of date. If you are going to accuse someone of something you might actually want to do your research. You know, what with you being a lawyer and all.

I'm unsure why you're reposting the information, I obviously saw it as I pointed out it was wrong. I even read it on his site before you posted it here and found it to be wrong. Seems lawyers just take the first thing they read rather than check it out.

If you had read the link I posted you would see that he has actually been involved with people associated with Team Sky as he submitted that information to the REF, a much better piece of information to base accusations of bias on than "He's probably British".

Of course, you didn't. You decided to have an argument instead. Well done.

You really should read more carefully.

Past that, if he cannot be bothered to update his information, why should I bother to dig further. The fact that he's from the UK was really my point, and that point hasn't changed.

...and wait...I think you decided to have an argument too...

You didn't even know he hadn't updated his info.

And you still haven't proved that he's from the UK, just made a baseless accusation... I work in Scotland, does that make me Scottish..?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Errr... Yes I did and you didn't post it.

Errr...here's the weblink: https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/about/

I figured that the fact that it's 2015, someone vaguely familiar with the intertubes could work out that, on a blog posted by someone else, the section titled "About Dr Mark Burnley" might be a place where another poster got his information. Maybe only lawyers are such keen observers of intertubes things?

Anyway, here is the first line again, from that so well hidden information:

I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK

Bigcog posted it first, not you. I read the article and the bio then bothered to do 5 seconds searching on Google and found out the information was very out of date. If you are going to accuse someone of something you might actually want to do your research. You know, what with you being a lawyer and all.

I'm unsure why you're reposting the information, I obviously saw it as I pointed out it was wrong. I even read it on his site before you posted it here and found it to be wrong. Seems lawyers just take the first thing they read rather than check it out.

If you had read the link I posted you would see that he has actually been involved with people associated with Team Sky as he submitted that information to the REF, a much better piece of information to base accusations of bias on than "He's probably British".

Of course, you didn't. You decided to have an argument instead. Well done.

You really should read more carefully.

Past that, if he cannot be bothered to update his information, why should I bother to dig further. The fact that he's from the UK was really my point, and that point hasn't changed.

...and wait...I think you decided to have an argument too...

You didn't even know he hadn't updated his info.

And you still haven't proved that he's from the UK, just made a baseless accusation... I work in Scotland, does that make me Scottish..?

Sorry to interlude in this little lovely tete a tete, but it does say "I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK"......If the guy said it why argue it?