Re: Re:
I snipped the previous quotes so I can post.
You mention team culture - I'm not saying a low budget team isn't disciplined, but I would expect a team (like Sky) with $$$ and a controlling mentality to really control their riders : "train this way", "train at this time", "report here for tests", etc. I just dont see that happening with someone like Barloword because they didnt have the $ for it - and we are talking 7 years ago for that, long before Sky time and mega $.
You mention Froome training the way he wants - I believe he said he did what he was asked to do, and then did more. So he was never 'under' training. Again I think it points to Sky's controlling nature - you cant fiddle a power meter to show you doing more than you should, you can turn it off to hide when you do more than you should.
But my overriding point is that if you have more $ you can control more. Sky have €6m / year more than Tinkoff - on a €27m budget (Tinkoff) that is a huge amount, and that is probably just cash terms. You really think they pay for those Jaguar cars and the posh busses? Those will be provided free and probably not included in that €33m (same would be for Tinkoff and their cars probably too - although they are not €70k Jags ...). What does that pay for? More training camps and assessment sessions / centres.
So yes I do think a big budget can influence things. And maybe if €1m a year was spent on these magical 'ketones' that people talk about then there could be a huge difference. The ketones that have been referred to a number of times by a number of people - and yes I know DB specifically said they werent using those.
Well, most people on here (Hitch & Benotti especially) think he is a liar, therefore he must be lying when he said that, which actually means they are using those ketones ...
red_flanders said:TheSpud said:I agree, and actually I would add in the OOC cortisone - I thought that was the choice of the French (and other teams)?
You say why are Sky better? Well, the 'riddle' above was the comparison between Barloworld and now - that is what I was responding to. Barloword - hardly a big budget team. I would expect Sky to p1ss all over them in terms of budget, training, coaches, and know how - so yes, thats why they would be some way ahead. I would imagine they are (much much) more disciplined (certainly than Barlow) and can (and do) organise / manage the team as a team rather than letting their riders just ride / train when they wanted. Thats where I was coming from in the comment above. I dont disagree that other (ProTour) teams are doing some / all of this - but that wasnt the comparison that was asked for.
Yeah, I get the specific comparison, I just don't get why people think that budget = better training. Maybe better nutrition and support? Maybe? More disciplined? Why? That's completely about team culture not budget. Why assume Barloworld "let their riders just ride / train when they wanted?" That seems comically unlikely. Is there some supporting information which points to any of this? Chris Froome claims in his book to ride/train the way he wants, not the way Sky wants.
I think Sky puts this out there to explain the unexplainable and people just believe it because they are looking for a reason to believe. I see no reason to believe it myself unless there are some corroborating facts. How did Wiggins become so great? Garmin had bad training? How does it explain riders sucking for a long time on team Sky, then all of a sudden becoming outstanding, all at different times? Sky training improvements are random and only take hold on certain people at certain times? I'm struggling to see why people believe this stuff...
I snipped the previous quotes so I can post.
You mention team culture - I'm not saying a low budget team isn't disciplined, but I would expect a team (like Sky) with $$$ and a controlling mentality to really control their riders : "train this way", "train at this time", "report here for tests", etc. I just dont see that happening with someone like Barloword because they didnt have the $ for it - and we are talking 7 years ago for that, long before Sky time and mega $.
You mention Froome training the way he wants - I believe he said he did what he was asked to do, and then did more. So he was never 'under' training. Again I think it points to Sky's controlling nature - you cant fiddle a power meter to show you doing more than you should, you can turn it off to hide when you do more than you should.
But my overriding point is that if you have more $ you can control more. Sky have €6m / year more than Tinkoff - on a €27m budget (Tinkoff) that is a huge amount, and that is probably just cash terms. You really think they pay for those Jaguar cars and the posh busses? Those will be provided free and probably not included in that €33m (same would be for Tinkoff and their cars probably too - although they are not €70k Jags ...). What does that pay for? More training camps and assessment sessions / centres.
So yes I do think a big budget can influence things. And maybe if €1m a year was spent on these magical 'ketones' that people talk about then there could be a huge difference. The ketones that have been referred to a number of times by a number of people - and yes I know DB specifically said they werent using those.
Well, most people on here (Hitch & Benotti especially) think he is a liar, therefore he must be lying when he said that, which actually means they are using those ketones ...