Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

If you stop and think about it, statistically, the person with the most athletic potential in the world is most likely an unknown factory worker or labourer in China or India who's never played sport in their life

Except that athletic potential isn't just about physical attributes. It is also about what goes on in your head, and that kind of stuff is influenced by everything around you from the moment you pop out of your mummy's tum.

Added to which, sport (especially at pro level) isn't just about who has the best athletic attributes. Relating this back to the thread topic, look at Wiggins....he won the 2012 Tour but he clearly wasn't even the best rider in his own team. But he was the 'star'.

 

[the sceptic]

How many months is it gonna take to publish the Dawg's test results?

Eagerly waiting an update on the hacking too

 

[veganrob]

Re: Sky

We're never going to see those test reults. Sky knows most peoples attention and comprehension span is a 20 second sound bite.

 

[wendybnt]

Of course you'll never get to see the 'tests'. Dream on.

 

[SeriousSam]

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

 

[heart_attack_man]

Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

Bots and changing minds is a non-sequitur. That is, "Daily Mail readers" is a simile for bots. Critical thinking went out the window with the belief in <insert blackcat chariotsoffire, gordonstoun, muscular christianity metaphor here>.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

If you stop and think about it, statistically, the person with the most athletic potential in the world is most likely an unknown factory worker or labourer in China or India who's never played sport in their life

Except that athletic potential isn't just about physical attributes. It is also about what goes on in your head, and that kind of stuff is influenced by everything around you from the moment you pop out of your mummy's tum.

Added to which, sport (especially at pro level) isn't just about who has the best athletic attributes. Relating this back to the thread topic, look at Wiggins....he won the 2012 Tour but he clearly wasn't even the best rider in his own team. But he was the 'star'.

Certainly, but I was talking from a pure numbers POV. BTW, you're kind of making another case for Phinney here. He's said on more than one occasion that both of his parents taught him good habits (first not specific to any sport - just healthy living, later on cycling specific) for as long as he can remember.

Doesn't make him clean but it's a massive advantage.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

Bots and changing minds is a non-sequitur. That is, "Daily Mail readers" is a simile for bots. Critical thinking went out the window with the belief in <insert blackcat chariotsoffire, gordonstoun, muscular christianity metaphor here>.

wise reference

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

You can't prove a negative. Nothing Sky could release would prove he's clean, especially to most of the posters here.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

You can't prove a negative. Nothing Sky could release would prove he's clean, especially to most of the posters here.

But you can prove they are lying.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Haha and that's exactly what they would be accused of by many if anything they released pointed firmly towards clean riding anyway. It would be like trying to persuade and unpersuadable, wouldn't it?

 

[the sceptic]

so even when they are proven liars you chose to believe that part when they say they are cleans?

 

[JimmyFingers]

I did? Thanks for letting me know. I'd appreciate you pointing at the post where I said this, just to remind me.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

You can't prove a negative. Nothing Sky could release would prove he's clean, especially to most of the posters here.

so why are they doing it?

 

[djpbaltimore]

If they do nothing, there will be more questions next year and eventually stonewalling will lead people to think there is something they are trying to hide. But from a publishing standpoint, there should be more data than just the one test. It should be a longitudinal test over a year or more.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

If they do nothing, there will be more questions next year and eventually stonewalling will lead people to think there is something they are trying to hide. But from a publishing standpoint, there should be more data than just the one test. It should be a longitudinal test over a year or more.

you can't hide an elephant in a room

but yeah.....longitudinal....like his pre-transformation VO2 max scores compared to now....yup...that would be useful...

 

[djpbaltimore]

We will never see those for the obvious reasons.

Then again, maybe they will never publish any of it and hope that everybody has a short collective attention span. They would get the PR of doing the testing without the blow-back of giving out any data. That could be their true aim.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

We will never see those for the obvious reasons.

Then again, maybe they will never publish any of it and hope that everybody has a short collective attention span. They would get the PR of doing the testing without the blow-back of giving out any data. That could be their true aim.

yup about as short as with kennaugh's weight loss...a legitimate question to answer but still we await an answer...or to quote Sir Dave...

"It's a good question to ask. That is a lot of weight to lose and I totally agree with you. What do we do to get to that kind of weight loss? They're the types of questions that would be legitimate to answer. I don't think there's any great secret in that."

 

[thehog]

Re:

How many months is it gonna take to publish the Dawg's test results?

Eagerly waiting an update on the hacking too

Hacking is a serious issue. Clearly not serious enough to resolve.

Dawg's test results will be published just as soon as they teach Walsh about power readings. That might take a year or two. He's a bit slow.

 

[The Carrot]

Re: Re:

If you stop and think about it, statistically, the person with the most athletic potential in the world is most likely an unknown factory worker or labourer in China or India who's never played sport in their life

Except that athletic potential isn't just about physical attributes. It is also about what goes on in your head, and that kind of stuff is influenced by everything around you from the moment you pop out of your mummy's tum.

Added to which, sport (especially at pro level) isn't just about who has the best athletic attributes. Relating this back to the thread topic, look at Wiggins....he won the 2012 Tour but he clearly wasn't even the best rider in his own team. But he was the 'star'.

Good point. The winners are, as much as possible, 'chosen' and these decisions are made at a bigger level than the team, for example; Wiggins' favourable Tdf course design in (of all years ) 2012. I'm guessing the decision is made on who will make the 'powers that be' the most money. 3 British Tdf wins in 4 years at a time when the market in the UK is expanding. Geraint Thomas is clearly the next 'chosen one' to win, all the right noises coming out of the media about him. And what else can they do to ensure that the right people win . Things are scripted which is why people keep using the WWE example. Athletic potential might get you in the peleton, but it's no guarantee of you winning anything.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

You can't prove a negative. Nothing Sky could release would prove he's clean, especially to most of the posters here.

I said "providing actual evidence that", not proving a negative. I'll explain the difference if required but hopefully it isn't.

Independent experts like Tucker specified what convincing evidence would look like. Unsurprisingly, it involved the release of more data than a likely doctored w/kg number for one climb.

Clearly, Sky only wanted to placate the idiots mid-Tour.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I wonder whether any of the bots who claimed that Sky are interested in providing actual evidence Froome is clean, as opposed to appeasing the Daily Mail readers with some bollocks during the Tour, will now change their mind.

You can't prove a negative. Nothing Sky could release would prove he's clean, especially to most of the posters here.

I said "providing actual evidence that", not proving a negative. I'll explain the difference if required but hopefully it isn't.

Independent experts like Tucker specified what convincing evidence would look like. Unsurprisingly, it involved the release of more data than a likely doctored w/kg number for one climb.

Clearly, Sky only wanted to placate the idiots mid-Tour.

Clearly it worked

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Sky

I wonder how the Sky fans feel about the most dodgy rider of the (in their opinion, at least that's what I gathered during the Giro) most dodgy team joining their squad.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Sky

I wonder how the Sky fans feel about the most dodgy rider of the (in their opinion, at least that's what I gathered during the Giro) most dodgy team joining their squad.

Contador is moving to Sky?!?!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Landa.