Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Wiggins at the bus that was gone!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Yvd_Shk-8

Brailsford cant get is lies straight.

 

[Enrico Gimondi]

The end of Sky is near. This particular article might not be it, but more and more is going to come out. That's how it always happens. Once that first piece of information comes out then we start to see more. People outside of the diehard cycling fans are now interested and people are going to start digging until they find something it. Give it time.

 

[ahsoe]

Re: Sky

Has the contents of the medical package been established?

The most incriminating thing is that Sky and Brailsford has been caught lying about the package and the whereabouts of Wiggins on the particular day. Without this there might exist a reasonable explanation, but Brailsford managed to almost confirm the shadiness of the issue.

Still as Sniper said, it is too early to cheer. But strangely satisfactory to see beginning cracks in the armor of Sky and some degree of nervousness.

 

[deeno1975]

Re:

Wiggins at the bus that was gone!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Yvd_Shk-8

Brailsford cant get is lies straight.

If Brailsford said the bus was gone, THE BUS WAS GONE... we have the bus tachographs and the drivers word on that... :lol:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practise to deceive!

 

[gerundium]

Re: Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

The airport customs wouldn't have had a problem with f.ex. blood transfusion equipment

A lot of countries require permits to import/export that kind of thing. If Sky tried to sneak one across without one then it would of been seized and having one creates a paper trail. While it is weird I'd be a lot more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Depend of what it is, a substance that is banned by the wada code could be pefectly legal, i.e. most Research Chemichals are legal to possess in most country as long as you don't intend to use them for human consumption. Have to admit i don't know the swiss law on this tough...

Who says the guy even had it on the plane with him? Maybe he acquired it locally or from a third party. we don't know. All we know is a guy flew from britain to switserland and drove to the final of the dauphine to meet wiggings allegedly with a medical package. a lot is unclear but the lying surrounding it doesn't look good at all.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

The airport customs wouldn't have had a problem with f.ex. blood transfusion equipment

A lot of countries require permits to import/export that kind of thing. If Sky tried to sneak one across without one then it would of been seized and having one creates a paper trail. While it is weird I'd be a lot more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Depend of what it is, a substance that is banned by the wada code could be pefectly legal, i.e. most Research Chemichals are legal to possess in most country as long as you don't intend to use them for human consumption. Have to admit i don't know the swiss law on this tough...

Who says the guy even had it on the plane with him? Maybe he acquired it locally or from a third party. we don't know. All we know is a guy flew from britain to switserland and drove to the final of the dauphine to meet wiggings allegedly with a medical package. a lot is unclear but the lying surrounding it doesn't look good at all.

I don't think you fly someone from London to France/Switzerland to pick up a package from the local pharmacy... I think it's safe to say he had the package with him.

John Swanson

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Is there no limit to the amount of lies Brailsford can come up with?

Where has he lied?

 

[JRanton]

Re: Sky

Honestly, the very fact that the most damning thing JTL can think of to damage Sky/GB Cycling is that he was offered a legal painkiller says everything really, doesn't it?

JTL is subject to an NDA with Team Sky so there won't be anything said about them unless he is called to be a witness in any investigation.

Whereas his WC appearance with GB Cycling is probably not subject to an NDA.

How do you know he's subject to an NDA?

 

[Knutsen]

Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Real world logic does not work very well in the Clinic. Please try again!

 

[Random Direction]

Re: Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Real world logic does not work very well in the Clinic. Please try again!

1. Did he fly commercial or private plane?
2. If private, which airport did he depart from / was there a security check?
3. Are there customs when landing in Geneva? Why was Geneva chosen instead of other airports that are closer?

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Still, I mean, I expected some things to come out sooner or later, but that Brailsbot of all people would be the one digging Sky's own hole in such amazingly incompetent fashion. Slightly surprosing.
And at such an early stage. I mean with Us postal it took a lot more time before they completely hung themselves in a web of lies.
Sky is already at that stage.
It's the stage where nobody with a quarter of a brain believes them.

That was the stage 4 years ago.

Anyone only realising now how doped they are doesn't deserve to be given more than quarter brain status

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Real world logic does not work very well in the Clinic. Please try again!

1. Did he fly commercial or private plane?
2. If private, which airport did he depart from / was there a security check?
3. Are there customs when landing in Geneva? Why was Geneva chosen instead of other airports that are closer?

People travel with medication all the time. It's not unusual. What is suspicious about taking a drug through an airport? I've taken my mediation in my hand luggage many times. Diabetics take needles and clear fluid. Women take IVF drugs in coolers through the airport.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Re: Sky

I have been a member here quite a long time, but have had log-in issues.

I feel compelled to re-introduce the work of Ewan MacKenna (I first saw his stuff thanks to the clinic).

the link: https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2016/10/07/team-skys-the-latest-limit/

A sample para:

When it comes to Sky, one former rider says that a 2010 team orientation was addressed by Brailsford who, he claims, said: “We go to the limit of what is allowed.” Another claim comes from the wife of a rider who was concerned with what she saw as doping but was reassured by former coach Shane Sutton that “what we do isn’t illegal, it’s immoral”. These are just their claims but look at this from another angle. In 2014, defending champion Chris Horner couldn’t ride the Vuelta as he was part of Lampre–Merida who’d signed up to Mouvement Pour un Cyclisme Crédible, meaning you’re tested before a race and his low cortisol meant he’d been taking it meaning he couldn’t start.

I ask: What is the limit of non-cheating?

When millionaires pay no taxes and the best sportsmen can take whatever?

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Wiggins at the bus that was gone!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Yvd_Shk-8

Brailsford cant get is lies straight.

If Brailsford said the bus was gone, THE BUS WAS GONE... we have the bus tachographs and the drivers word on that... :lol:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practise to deceive!

Listen if Sky can check the flight logs of every flight coming into Tenerife then they can fake a tachograph

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Wiggins at the bus that was gone!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Yvd_Shk-8

Brailsford cant get is lies straight.

If Brailsford said the bus was gone, THE BUS WAS GONE... we have the bus tachographs and the drivers word on that... :lol:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practise to deceive!

Listen if Sky can check the flight logs of every flight coming into Tenerife then they can fake a tachograph

I'm curious to get your reaction to the article posted just above your post. It seems quite incriminating. Surely you must have some doubts.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Wiggins at the bus that was gone!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Yvd_Shk-8

Brailsford cant get is lies straight.

If Brailsford said the bus was gone, THE BUS WAS GONE... we have the bus tachographs and the drivers word on that... :lol:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practise to deceive!

Listen if Sky can check the flight logs of every flight coming into Tenerife then they can fake a tachograph

I'm curious to get your reaction to the article posted just above your post. It seems quite incriminating. Surely you must have some doubts.

Why would you want to hear rickjames thoughts now? We have had 4 years of picking holes in Sky, their webs, lack of transparency, lies, hiring doping doctors, hiring former dopers, hiring riders from known doping teams, etc etc. If a cycling fan cannot put as Ullrich said, one and one together then they cannot be helped! Or they are here to try and obfuscate the discussion on behalf of people who have an interest in trying to make the information cloudy.

We saw it with an american team using interns and a PR company to post on comment sections and forum to obfuscate the story of cheating.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Why not take it with you? It's not like it is some hazardous material or a kilo of cocaine.. People bring all kinds of stuff with them on trips almost none of which gets anyone in trouble. Maybe you don't travel much internationally?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

I'm curious to get your reaction to the article posted just above your post. It seems quite incriminating. Surely you must have some doubts.

Some will hold out despite a mountain of evidence that has been piling up around Sky since their sudden grand tour dominance. Just like Armstrong. This time it paid off better for ASO and the UCI.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Wiggins at the bus that was gone!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Yvd_Shk-8

Brailsford cant get is lies straight.

If Brailsford said the bus was gone, THE BUS WAS GONE... we have the bus tachographs and the drivers word on that... :lol:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practise to deceive!

Listen if Sky can check the flight logs of every flight coming into Tenerife then they can fake a tachograph

I'm curious to get your reaction to the article posted just above your post. It seems quite incriminating. Surely you must have some doubts.

Why would you want to hear rickjames thoughts now? We have had 4 years of picking holes in Sky, their webs, lack of transparency, lies, hiring doping doctors, hiring former dopers, hiring riders from known doping teams, etc etc. If a cycling fan cannot put as Ullrich said, one and one together then they cannot be helped! Or they are here to try and obfuscate the discussion on behalf of people who have an interest in trying to make the information cloudy.

We saw it with an american team using interns and a PR company to post on comment sections and forum to obfuscate the story of cheating.

Well, there reaches a point where one can no longer cover their eyes and ears and sing "LA, LA, LA, LA, LA" while the world (the Sky empire) is crumbling around them. While before it was just The Clinic members presenting this info that questioned Sky's legitimacy as a supposed "clean" operation, it is now being questioned in the international media. There comes a time when even the most ardent supporter has to have doubts about their heroes.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Here's a question, why if you were trying to smuggle PEDs why would you take it through airport customs? Surely the last thing you would want is to have it either put through an x-ray machine or searched? It would be more suspicious if Cope had driven.

Why not take it with you? It's not like it is some hazardous material or a kilo of cocaine.. People bring all kinds of stuff with them on trips almost none of which gets anyone in trouble. Maybe you don't travel much internationally?

This. There are thousands of athletes travelling all over the world regularly, needing their medication, whether performance enhancing or not.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Well, there reaches a point where one can no longer cover their eyes and ears and sing "LA, LA, LA, LA, LA" while the world (the Sky empire) is crumbling around them. While before it was just The Clinic members presenting this info that questioned Sky's legitimacy as a supposed "clean" operation, it is now being questioned in the international media. There comes a time when even the most ardent supporter has to have doubts about their heroes.

The most ardent heroes who do the "LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA" tend to wait till the hero confesses. They wont do the research, they wont check the lies, they make all kinds of excuses for their heroes. Even after a confession we saw some claiming it was only to level the playing field. Sky didn't level the playing field, they bought it.

 

[MmeDesgrange]

And on it goes: UKAD raid the Manchester Velodrome, home of British Cycling - and Team Sky http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3827780/Drug-raid-Velodrome-Cycling-crisis-investigators-swoop-dream-factory.html

 

[Lyon]

Re: Sky

I have been a member here quite a long time, but have had log-in issues.

I feel compelled to re-introduce the work of Ewan MacKenna (I first saw his stuff thanks to the clinic).

the link: https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2016/10/07/team-skys-the-latest-limit/

A sample para:

When it comes to Sky, one former rider says that a 2010 team orientation was addressed by Brailsford who, he claims, said: “We go to the limit of what is allowed.” Another claim comes from the wife of a rider who was concerned with what she saw as doping but was reassured by former coach Shane Sutton that “what we do isn’t illegal, it’s immoral”. These are just their claims but look at this from another angle. In 2014, defending champion Chris Horner couldn’t ride the Vuelta as he was part of Lampre–Merida who’d signed up to Mouvement Pour un Cyclisme Crédible, meaning you’re tested before a race and his low cortisol meant he’d been taking it meaning he couldn’t start.

I ask: What is the limit of non-cheating?

When millionaires pay no taxes and the best sportsmen can take whatever?

"We go to the limit of what is allowed" is just another plausible lie. I have mentioned it before but Sky isn't so much copying US Postal as they are copying the Norwegian Skiing Federation. They did the 'gray area' thing back in the early nineties. Of course, it isn't really copying as much as it is doing what is neccesary to play in the big league. I'm sure there are many other examples across different sports.

 

[deeno1975]

Oh my oh my, the Sky is falling down said Chicken Licken

 

[Robert5091]

So who told the Mail about the delivery of goodies to Wiggens?