Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Any news about the package?

Likely find out the contents on December 19.

Still waiting on that link Matt.....

 

[Zypherov]

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

 

[rick james]

Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

of course they're clean, but the big bad Brits must be hated on...its what keeps some people going

 

[mike75]

Re: Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

of course they're clean, but the big bad Brits must be hated on...its what keeps some people going

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The naivety is strong with this one.

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

of course they're clean, but the big bad Brits must be hated on...its what keeps some people going

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The naivety is strong with this one.

Please enlighten us with your professional insight into Team Sky's imagined doping. This smear campaign has gone on long enough. The conspiratorial babble is strong with the doubters.

 

[Dan2016]

Interesting the reactions post Wiggins fiasco. Surprising how many people still holding resolutely to the belief Sky are clean.
Seems like cognitive dissonance to me.

The evidence is quite damning. The rational objective response is surely to accept the damning evidence and at least move your belief from 'clean' to uncertainty. To maintain belief in 'completely clean' seems a little delusional. A bit of fence sitting is in order at least, surely?

Is this some kind of life affirming thing, needing sporting heroes to believe in? Or are the true believers here just stirring the pot for a bit light-hearted banter?

 

[Zypherov]

Re:

Interesting the reactions post Wiggins fiasco. Surprising how many people still holding resolutely to the belief Sky are clean.
Seems like cognitive dissonance to me.

The evidence is quite damning. The rational objective response is surely to accept the damning evidence and at least move your belief from 'clean' to uncertainty. To maintain belief in 'completely clean' seems a little delusional. A bit of fence sitting is in order at least, surely?

Is this some kind of life affirming thing, needing sporting heroes to believe in? Or are the true believers here just stirring the pot for a bit light-hearted banter?

I honestly don't think that a Team like Sky would survive this amount of scrutiny if they were actually doping. I think that some posters only think that they are right, really not sure, just guessing, wishful thinking, hoping that they are right for the chance of a "I told you so" moment. Obviously there are some ethical issues with the TUE thing, but Sky acted within the rules.

 

[Huapango]

Re: Re:

Because Team Sky, the UCI, WADA and UKAD said so? I can understand that train of thought. There are some of us who don't trust the credibility of those agencies anymore, and disagree with that assessment.

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

And they only needed to join Team Sky to realize their potential, right. Because they are the only team with such talent? That's all Froome and Wiggo needed. Well that and a comfy pillow.

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

Interesting the reactions post Wiggins fiasco. Surprising how many people still holding resolutely to the belief Sky are clean.
Seems like cognitive dissonance to me.

The evidence is quite damning. The rational objective response is surely to accept the damning evidence and at least move your belief from 'clean' to uncertainty. To maintain belief in 'completely clean' seems a little delusional. A bit of fence sitting is in order at least, surely?

Is this some kind of life affirming thing, needing sporting heroes to believe in? Or are the true believers here just stirring the pot for a bit light-hearted banter?

well, remarkably similar evolution as in the case of certain zero times Tour winner: fanbase gradually eroding as the allegations kept piling up, but those that remained gradually hardened up... so at the end there were only real hardcore pharmstrongistas, some of which believe to this day everything was a worldwide conspiracy against their hero (in the worst case, everyone was doped anyway so he deserves his jerseys no matter what)

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

of course they're clean, but the big bad Brits must be hated on...its what keeps some people going

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The naivety is strong with this one.

Ok, show me proof team sky are doping, no innuendo, actual proof

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Interesting the reactions post Wiggins fiasco. Surprising how many people still holding resolutely to the belief Sky are clean.
Seems like cognitive dissonance to me.

The evidence is quite damning. The rational objective response is surely to accept the damning evidence and at least move your belief from 'clean' to uncertainty. To maintain belief in 'completely clean' seems a little delusional. A bit of fence sitting is in order at least, surely?

Is this some kind of life affirming thing, needing sporting heroes to believe in? Or are the true believers here just stirring the pot for a bit light-hearted banter?

well, remarkably similar evolution as in the case of certain zero times Tour winner: fanbase gradually eroding as the allegations kept piling up, but those that remained gradually hardened up... so at the end there were only real hardcore pharmstrongistas

Agreed. The usps-sky similarieties are baffling on many levels, also wrt the behavioural curve of the fanbase.

The fall out came a bit earlier with Sky though. I mean the Believers vs. Doubters ratio was much more favourable for Lance around the same time.
Which is no surprise of course considering some people (albeit not too many, and certainly not the UK press) have actually learned from the Lance case, and I guess increased power/reach of social media also plays its part.

Only very few whose learning curve has actually been backwards. Walsh being the most striking example.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Re:

Any news about the package?

Likely find out the contents on December 19.

Likely they will simply lie on December 19, and gamble that the source of the allegation doesn't have evidence to back up the allegation (that's assuming the source hasn't been paid off already to go away).

Employees of News International don't have a great track record in front of Parliamentary Select Committees, Rebecca Brooks and Andy Coulson (also employees of Rupert Murdoch) simply lied until eventually the police caught up with them.

In fact Parliamentary Select Committees have been a joke for some time in terms of people turning up and making a mockery of the fact that the committees have no power, no clout and the people they are interviewing have equally as much dirt on the Committee members themselves.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

of course they're clean, but the big bad Brits must be hated on...its what keeps some people going

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The naivety is strong with this one.

Ok, show me proof team sky are doping, no innuendo, actual proof

we're back at Armstrong ground zero with this

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

I'll try this approach.........................

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he dopes and has always doped. So he is part of a systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are dirty also

see how that level of evidence works?

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Re:

I have met a member of Team Sky on several occasions. I know him. He was born within the same area that I was. I know for a fact that he doesn't dope nor has he ever doped. So he is not part of some imagined systematic doping programme on Team Sky. That's his story. As for the rest of the team I honestly feel that they are clean also.

of course they're clean, but the big bad Brits must be hated on...its what keeps some people going

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The naivety is strong with this one.

Ok, show me proof team sky are doping, no innuendo, actual proof

Lets flip this, explain to me how a team of 30 'fit' young men need 4 full time Doctors and a medicine fund of £250,000?

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Re:

Interesting the reactions post Wiggins fiasco. Surprising how many people still holding resolutely to the belief Sky are clean.
Seems like cognitive dissonance to me.

The evidence is quite damning. The rational objective response is surely to accept the damning evidence and at least move your belief from 'clean' to uncertainty. To maintain belief in 'completely clean' seems a little delusional. A bit of fence sitting is in order at least, surely?

Is this some kind of life affirming thing, needing sporting heroes to believe in? Or are the true believers here just stirring the pot for a bit light-hearted banter?

well, remarkably similar evolution as in the case of certain zero times Tour winner: fanbase gradually eroding as the allegations kept piling up, but those that remained gradually hardened up... so at the end there were only real hardcore pharmstrongistas

Agreed. The usps-sky similarieties are baffling on many levels, also wrt the behavioural curve of the fanbase.

The fall out came a bit earlier with Sky though. I mean the Believers vs. Doubters ratio was much more favourable for Lance around the same time.
Which is no surprise of course considering some people (albeit not too many, and certainly not the UK press) have actually learned from the Lance case, and I guess increased power/reach of social media also plays its part.

Only very few whose learning curve has actually been backwards. Walsh being the most striking example.

See that's the problem right there and that is comparing Team Sky to Lance Armstrong and US Postal. Sky and Us Postal are worlds apart. You can't compare both. For example Sky are especially in the Tour de France deploying the so called train on a daily basis, US postal done the same so the argument goes that Sky must be doping. Same goes for all other current teams dominating the pace setting on the front of the Peloton just like US Postal so they must be doping. No Sky riders ever tested positive, neither did Armstrong (well he did of course), neither did Marion Jones so the argument goes that because these athletes never tested positive then Sky are able to cheat the system. Sky will get rid of employees, doctors and riders etc, who have had an affiliation with doping on some level or another so the argument goes that this has all to do with public relations, etc, ect. Sky are subject to the Biological Passport so the argument goes that it can be manipulated and Sky are real Houdini's at performing this magic. Sky have a magic potion up their sleeves that no one else has access to. These futile arguments go on and yet no one has ever proved anything because there is nothing to prove. These extraordinary allegations must be followed up by extraordinary proof.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

...but aren't all pros that reach the World Tour level of the sport? How does that make the Team Sky riders any different from the rest of the professional peloton?

 

[Irondan]

Might I remind everyone that even though it's the offseason and the forum is slow, forum rules still apply...

This is not directed at any one person.

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

...but aren't all pros that reach the World Tour level of the sport? How does that make the Team Sky riders any different from the rest of the professional peloton?

Yes, all pros are. I'm not suggesting that Team Sky are any different to the rest of the riders in the Peloton. Semantics hey !!.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re: Re:

Interesting the reactions post Wiggins fiasco. Surprising how many people still holding resolutely to the belief Sky are clean.
Seems like cognitive dissonance to me.

The evidence is quite damning. The rational objective response is surely to accept the damning evidence and at least move your belief from 'clean' to uncertainty. To maintain belief in 'completely clean' seems a little delusional. A bit of fence sitting is in order at least, surely?

Is this some kind of life affirming thing, needing sporting heroes to believe in? Or are the true believers here just stirring the pot for a bit light-hearted banter?

well, remarkably similar evolution as in the case of certain zero times Tour winner: fanbase gradually eroding as the allegations kept piling up, but those that remained gradually hardened up... so at the end there were only real hardcore pharmstrongistas

Agreed. The usps-sky similarieties are baffling on many levels, also wrt the behavioural curve of the fanbase.

The fall out came a bit earlier with Sky though. I mean the Believers vs. Doubters ratio was much more favourable for Lance around the same time.
Which is no surprise of course considering some people (albeit not too many, and certainly not the UK press) have actually learned from the Lance case, and I guess increased power/reach of social media also plays its part.

Only very few whose learning curve has actually been backwards. Walsh being the most striking example.

See that's the problem right there and that is comparing Team Sky to Lance Armstrong and US Postal. Sky and Us Postal are worlds apart. You can't compare both. For example Sky are especially in the Tour de France deploying the so called train on a daily basis, US postal done the same so the argument goes that Sky must be doping. Same goes for all other current teams dominating the pace setting on the front of the Peloton just like US Postal so they must be doping. No Sky riders ever tested positive, neither did Armstrong (well he did of course), neither did Marion Jones so the argument goes that because these athletes never tested positive then Sky are able to cheat the system. Sky will get rid of employees, doctors and riders etc, who have had an affiliation with doping on some level or another so the argument goes that this has all to do with public relations, etc, ect. Sky are subject to the Biological Passport so the argument goes that it can be manipulated and Sky are real Houdini's at performing this magic. Sky have a magic potion up their sleeves that no one else has access to. These futile arguments go on and yet no one has ever proved anything because there is nothing to prove. These extraordinary allegations must be followed up by extraordinary proof.

I wouldn't call saying that pro cyclists dope "extraordinary allegations" but YMMV i guess...

 

[noddy69]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

...but aren't all pros that reach the World Tour level of the sport? How does that make the Team Sky riders any different from the rest of the professional peloton?

Yes, all pros are. I'm not suggesting that Team Sky are any different to the rest of the riders in the Peloton. Semantics hey !!.

So if Team Sky are not any different to other riders on the World Tour how do they beat known dopers without doping ? Are you a subscriber to the theory the drugs don't work ? Or do you actually believe the sport is drug free ?

 

[kingjr]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

...but aren't all pros that reach the World Tour level of the sport? How does that make the Team Sky riders any different from the rest of the professional peloton?

Yes, all pros are. I'm not suggesting that Team Sky are any different to the rest of the riders in the Peloton. Semantics hey !!.

So if Team Sky are not any different to other riders on the World Tour how do they beat known dopers without doping

There are different kinds of talent. A doped talented sprinter will always be behind a clean talented climber on a MTF.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re: Sky

The riders of Team Sky are highly talented individuals who like all top athletes were born with natural genetic talent far beyond the reach and comprehension of the average individual's insight and analysis.

...but aren't all pros that reach the World Tour level of the sport? How does that make the Team Sky riders any different from the rest of the professional peloton?

Yes, all pros are. I'm not suggesting that Team Sky are any different to the rest of the riders in the Peloton. Semantics hey !!.

So if Team Sky are not any different to other riders on the World Tour how do they beat known dopers without doping

There are different kinds of talent. A doped talented sprinter will always be behind a clean talented climber on a MTF.

On the top of my mind, Laurent Jalabert might disagree with that.