Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re: Re:

climb4fun said:
King Boonen said:
blackcat said:
King Boonen said:
What are you talking about?
it was a reply to the, no, it was a reply implicit the paradox of making injections illegal.

well, so are PEDs in cycling, but we all take them in the peloton.

Also, so much illegal stuff can now be delivered via other method. Seems the hypodermic transmission method being outlawed was pure spin.
I know, but it had nothing to do with my post. I was just outlining the rules. I didn't say anything about reporting/investigating offences.

Bioavailability and location differs based on delivery method, it's why injectable still exist and not everything is in pill/cream form. I know what you mean, for example outlawing injections of glucocorticosteroids but them allowing people to guzzle them as pills seems like a marketing effort (and it is in some respects) but outlawing injections is still worthwhile, they should just go further.
Sorry. I guess I was questioning the "logic". It wasn't personal.
That's fine, I don't take things personally, I was just confused as you quoted me. Yes, it would require evidence either in the form of a test showing that an injection was the only likely route for that concentration of the substance or something else, like Millar, an informant etc.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

thehog said:
Rollthedice said:
Apparently Geert Freeman was handing out corticos to everybody at Sky. Hey doc, do you happen to have some triamcinolone left from that stash, I look fatter that Sir Dave!
Geert Freeman! :lol: :lol:
this forum needs an emoticon with tears i'm laughing so hard.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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I haven't read all the ins and outs of the latest from Sky. Has Froome tweeted/given interviews yet demanding that Brailsford be removed for sullying Dawg's pristine reputation?

Has Cound publicly claimed to be Froome's personal doctor, in addition to his nutritionist, PR person, etc, etc, etc, to prove that he was never treated by the horrible Dr. Freeman?
 
This thread goes nearly 2000 pages. There's been a lot of passionate Sky defenders from page 1.

Can I ask: who has been converted now? And what was the process of conversion like? And what precisely was the moment of conversion?
 
Aug 17, 2016
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Haven't heard much from the Skybots lately around here. Especially the ones who come in with one-line trolling quips. Maybe they're busy making up new accounts to trash Sky now that they are just about cooked...
 
Re:

The Hegelian said:
This thread goes nearly 2000 pages. There's been a lot of passionate Sky defenders from page 1.

Can I ask: who has been converted now? And what was the process of conversion like? And what precisely was the moment of conversion?
As a long-time fan of Froomie and DB, I must say that while I feel a measure of disappointment that one of Sky's doctors should have had a lapse in maintaining records, this whole witch hunt over a delivery bag has gotten completely blown out of proportion. For heaven's sake, I couldn't tell you what was in my own duffel bag on any specific occasion six years ago. Sometimes I believe governing bodies feel required to go on these types of tirades to justify their own existence, if not to the citizenry at large, then to themselves. It's unrealistic to expect organizations of the size and scope of British Cycling and Sky to maintain total perfection in all operations indefinitely. Sooner or later, people are going to make honest mistakes, whether through oversight or carelessness, or a moment's brief inattention. This most trivial lapse should in no way detract from the outstanding example that Sky has consistently provided for the world of cycling during a time when the sport has sorely needed instruction in how to do things the right way, the clean way . . . the Sky Way. In the current circumstances, if you want to know what a real travesty would be, that would be allowing a meaningless record-keeping blip to cloud the cycling world's view of the greatest, most inspiring outfit the sport has seen in generations. That would be like throwing up the white flag after Dunkirk in 1940. The party isn't over, my friends. Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough... the tough get going! Who's with me? . . . Let's go!
 
Re: Re:

JosephK said:
The Hegelian said:
This thread goes nearly 2000 pages. There's been a lot of passionate Sky defenders from page 1.

Can I ask: who has been converted now? And what was the process of conversion like? And what precisely was the moment of conversion?
As a long-time fan of Froomie and DB, I must say that while I feel a measure of disappointment that one of Sky's doctors should have had a lapse in maintaining records, this whole witch hunt over a delivery bag has gotten completely blown out of proportion. For heaven's sake, I couldn't tell you what was in my own duffel bag on any specific occasion six years ago. Sometimes I believe governing bodies feel required to go on these types of tirades to justify their own existence, if not to the citizenry at large, then to themselves. It's unrealistic to expect organizations of the size and scope of British Cycling and Sky to maintain total perfection in all operations indefinitely. Sooner or later, people are going to make honest mistakes, whether through oversight or carelessness, or a moment's brief inattention. This most trivial lapse should in no way detract from the outstanding example that Sky has consistently provided for the world of cycling during a time when the sport has sorely needed instruction in how to do things the right way, the clean way . . . the Sky Way. In the current circumstances, if you want to know what a real travesty would be, that would be allowing a meaningless record-keeping blip to cloud the cycling world's view of the greatest, most inspiring outfit the sport has seen in generations. That would be like throwing up the white flag after Dunkirk in 1940. The party isn't over, my friends. Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough... the tough get going! Who's with me? . . . Let's go!
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or a declaration that you haven't had a moment of conversion yet.

If it's the latter: what's trivial about it? It's only trivial if you extract the jiffy bag from the context of 20+ years of doping history in pro cycling; the wave is not part of the ocean.
 
Re: Re:

JosephK said:
The Hegelian said:
This thread goes nearly 2000 pages. There's been a lot of passionate Sky defenders from page 1.

Can I ask: who has been converted now? And what was the process of conversion like? And what precisely was the moment of conversion?
As a long-time fan of Froomie and DB, I must say that while I feel a measure of disappointment that one of Sky's doctors should have had a lapse in maintaining records, this whole witch hunt over a delivery bag has gotten completely blown out of proportion. For heaven's sake, I couldn't tell you what was in my own duffel bag on any specific occasion six years ago. Sometimes I believe governing bodies feel required to go on these types of tirades to justify their own existence, if not to the citizenry at large, then to themselves. It's unrealistic to expect organizations of the size and scope of British Cycling and Sky to maintain total perfection in all operations indefinitely. Sooner or later, people are going to make honest mistakes, whether through oversight or carelessness, or a moment's brief inattention. This most trivial lapse should in no way detract from the outstanding example that Sky has consistently provided for the world of cycling during a time when the sport has sorely needed instruction in how to do things the right way, the clean way . . . the Sky Way. In the current circumstances, if you want to know what a real travesty would be, that would be allowing a meaningless record-keeping blip to cloud the cycling world's view of the greatest, most inspiring outfit the sport has seen in generations. That would be like throwing up the white flag after Dunkirk in 1940. The party isn't over, my friends. Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough... the tough get going! Who's with me? . . . Let's go!
epic troll!!! :D
 
Re: Re:

Digger said:
JosephK said:
The Hegelian said:
This thread goes nearly 2000 pages. There's been a lot of passionate Sky defenders from page 1.

Can I ask: who has been converted now? And what was the process of conversion like? And what precisely was the moment of conversion?
As a long-time fan of Froomie and DB, I must say that while I feel a measure of disappointment that one of Sky's doctors should have had a lapse in maintaining records, this whole witch hunt over a delivery bag has gotten completely blown out of proportion. For heaven's sake, I couldn't tell you what was in my own duffel bag on any specific occasion six years ago. Sometimes I believe governing bodies feel required to go on these types of tirades to justify their own existence, if not to the citizenry at large, then to themselves. It's unrealistic to expect organizations of the size and scope of British Cycling and Sky to maintain total perfection in all operations indefinitely. Sooner or later, people are going to make honest mistakes, whether through oversight or carelessness, or a moment's brief inattention. This most trivial lapse should in no way detract from the outstanding example that Sky has consistently provided for the world of cycling during a time when the sport has sorely needed instruction in how to do things the right way, the clean way . . . the Sky Way. In the current circumstances, if you want to know what a real travesty would be, that would be allowing a meaningless record-keeping blip to cloud the cycling world's view of the greatest, most inspiring outfit the sport has seen in generations. That would be like throwing up the white flag after Dunkirk in 1940. The party isn't over, my friends. Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough... the tough get going! Who's with me? . . . Let's go!
epic troll!!! :D
:lol: Glad u enjoyed! These last couple days have been awesome.
 
Re: Sky

I'm not sure how anyone can continue to credibly defend Team Sky at this point. The stocks of triamcinolone would seem to explain the tremendous power output we have seen from the Sky riders with their downright skeletal physiques.

It will be interesting to see if we will see any of the riders themselves come forward or if they believe there is still enough plausible deniability left for them to hide behind. It feels like we are heading towards a tipping point similar to what happened with Lance Armstrong and the Postal Service team.
 
Feb 23, 2011
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Re: Sky

Blakeslee said:
I'm not sure how anyone can continue to credibly defend Team Sky at this point. The stocks of triamcinolone would seem to explain the tremendous power output we have seen from the Sky riders with their downright skeletal physiques.

It will be interesting to see if we will see any of the riders themselves come forward or if they believe there is still enough plausible deniability left for them to hide behind. It feels like we are heading towards a tipping point similar to what happened with Lance Armstrong and the Postal Service team.
You are spot on. There came a point with Armstrong that the circumstantial evidence was so overwhelming it became hard to ignore. However with Armstrong the FBI got him by pulling his team mates before a grand jury and saying, if you don't tell the truth you will go to prison. For a while everyone thought Armstrong would go to prison until some "political intervention" saw it all pass to Travis Tygart to pursue as an Anti-Doping matter-reasoned decision etc etc. Its worth mentioning here while I remember the massive amounts of intimidation investigators had from the Armstrong camp and his associates throughout him being investigated**. In summary much evidence was obtained under threat of criminality when the sanctions became Anti Doping in nature.

In the UK this is different and as it stands Freeman will almost certainly face the GMC and UKAD have to decide if there is enough circumstantial evidence to pursue Wiggins (now retired and who could get any sanction overturned at CAS if banned on shaky evidence).

So how does it play out? At the moment its changing daily but a lot depends on what Freeman reveals to the committee or UKAD. Lets remember in the UK these guys aren't facing a stretch in prison for lying.

The optimist in me says Freeman buckles, tells all and takes them all down with him - everyone.

The pessimist in me says he takes the heat, Wiggins forever has a cloud over him and Brailsford resigns. British Cycling/Sky restructure under new 'mismanagement' and the show goes on.

But what really bothers me is that with Alistair Campbell now being involved they are going to attempt to 'book end' the whole affair i.e. a rotten bunch of apples in an otherwise clean team who were involved only during Wiggins grand tour tenure (up until 2012). This narrative is already happening with British Cycling trotting out the old new management, lessons learned, etc etc. People buy into this kind of narrative (similar to what the UCI and Pro-Cycling have done with the Bio Passport). Yep doping is a thing of the past, its a lot cleaner now, you can tell by performances etc etc etc. A clever tactic, that was then this is now.

I don't know who can challenge this narrative? The press? The committee? UKAD?

We all know that the core bunch of GC guys (top of that tree being Froome) were super skinny and putting out obscene w/kilo hour after hour as domestiques. It doesn't take Einstein to form an option as to who that triamcinolone was for.

What makes it particularly tricky is Sapstead spoke in past tense about Freemans orders of triamcinolone. He was ordering it but when? Just up to 2012 or as recently as December 2016??

If she can clarify this one point 'book ending' it to solely the Wiggins era becomes very difficult to spin.

Deafening silence from everyone involved with cycling including Millar, Vaughters, MPCC, Sherwen and Liggett :lol:

Whatever happened to the voice of reason that was Michael Ashenden
 
Jul 21, 2016
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B-Ugli, that's a good post, summed the situation up very well. I hadn't thought about the 'book-ending' aspect. Sapstead could have helped by being more specific it seems. The pessimist in me thinks, with Alistair Campbell now employed by Sky to spin this, it will become a non-story in a relatively short time.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

The Hegelian said:
This thread goes nearly 2000 pages. There's been a lot of passionate Sky defenders from page 1.

Can I ask: who has been converted now? And what was the process of conversion like? And what precisely was the moment of conversion?
most of them are too gutless and have just pissed off.

Team Sky PR Officer youtube, please everyone with social media accounts, please tweet and retweet this.
with the #teamSky hashtag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8o7RNL-mHI
 
Re: Sky

B_Ugli said:
So how does it play out? At the moment its changing daily but a lot depends on what Freeman reveals to the committee or UKAD. Lets remember in the UK these guys aren't facing a stretch in prison for lying.

The optimist in me says Freeman buckles, tells all and takes them all down with him - everyone.

The pessimist in me says he takes the heat, Wiggins forever has a cloud over him and Brailsford resigns. British Cycling/Sky restructure under new 'mismanagement' and the show goes on.

But what really bothers me is that with Alistair Campbell now being involved they are going to attempt to 'book end' the whole affair i.e. a rotten bunch of apples in an otherwise clean team who were involved only during Wiggins grand tour tenure (up until 2012). This narrative is already happening with British Cycling trotting out the old new management, lessons learned, etc etc. People buy into this kind of narrative (similar to what the UCI and Pro-Cycling have done with the Bio Passport). Yep doping is a thing of the past, its a lot cleaner now, you can tell by performances etc etc etc. A clever tactic, that was then this is now.
the optimistic in me hopes the pessimistic in you is right :p
 
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