Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Re:

Luke Rowe is last rider in the race, so not sure he's doing any more than any other domestique early in the stage? Plenty of riders can outclimb any GC contender for a few km, knowing in 20 minutes time their day is over and they can ride easy for the next 100km.

just like USPS doms.

 

[Saint Unix]

Kwiatkowski and Landa are struggling to pretend like they're hurting while GC contenders are dying all around.

 

[deeno1975]

Re:

Kwiatkowski and Landa are struggling to pretend like they're hurting while GC contenders are dying all around.

Landa doesn't even need to breath...

 

[58teeth]

The performance by those two is worthy of a screen-actor's guild award and best male performance in a supporting role Oscar. Holy cow they are absolute mutants.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

The performance by those two is worthy of a screen-actor's guild award and best male performance in a supporting role Oscar. Holy cow they are absolute mutants.

Mocking someones effort is despicable:
https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/888093323059236864

 

[Durden93]

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

Well I wonder why you have Astana as "dirty" and Sky as "suspicious". Both seem obviously dirty, and Sky by far more successful with more questionable riders....

But to the question, I think he could have won. I think he's dirty as can be.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

Funny, Astana, "dirty", Sky only "suspicious" yet blow everyone away a la USPS, and Valverde has a "programme".

Are they all not dirty, suspicious and on programmes? Yes they are!

 

[masking_agent]

Team Sky are clearly using the latest peds with great success. Team Sky are well into the 6.0 - 6.4w/kg Systematic doping galore is what we witnessed today Landa barely breathing up the climbs. I think he smiled at one point while putting the hurt on the riders behind. The train has 4-5 guys drilling it up every climb should raise some eyebrows I hope ? Hello David Walsh ???

When the likes of riders such as Uran, Aru, who are on some stuff and are killing themselves just stay in contact with team sky, should rasie flags no ???? Then you have Quintana who's getting dropped on every decisive climb. He definitely has to resort to some new sauce for next year.

What I would like to see ? is the doctors share their "sauce remedies" to other team doctors, so we can juice up other teams and have two trains going hard at each other in years to come ?

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

Funny, Astana, "dirty", Sky only "suspicious" yet blow everyone away a la USPS, and Valverde has a "programme".

Are they all not dirty, suspicious and on programmes? Yes they are!

I listed sky as "suspicious" and not "dirty" because they haven't had a major sanction, yet. Even Wiggins has yet to be sanctioned. Astana have had 5 positives in a year. I thought it was obvious that by linking those two together I was implying that sky aren't clean but oh well.

 

[jilbiker]

Kwiatkowski pulling like a mtn goat, that was something to watch or not watch. Kwiatkowski?? When/how did he become so prolific in the mountains?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

Funny, Astana, "dirty", Sky only "suspicious" yet blow everyone away a la USPS, and Valverde has a "programme".

Are they all not dirty, suspicious and on programmes? Yes they are!

I listed sky as "suspicious" and not "dirty" because they haven't had a major sanction, yet. Even Wiggins has yet to be sanctioned. Astana have had 5 positives in a year. I thought it was obvious that by linking those two together I was implying that sky aren't clean but oh well.

Who is going to sanction, Sky? Cookson, Reedie or an other?

The same culture that allowed Armstrong to win has not changed.

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

Funny, Astana, "dirty", Sky only "suspicious" yet blow everyone away a la USPS, and Valverde has a "programme".

Are they all not dirty, suspicious and on programmes? Yes they are!

I listed sky as "suspicious" and not "dirty" because they haven't had a major sanction, yet. Even Wiggins has yet to be sanctioned. Astana have had 5 positives in a year. I thought it was obvious that by linking those two together I was implying that sky aren't clean but oh well.

Who is going to sanction, Sky? Cookson, Reedie or an other?

The same culture that allowed Armstrong to win has not changed.

I am almost having a rethink on LA, was he excessively punished since nothing has changed and we have the same drama. But then just when we gave up on LA being exposed, the greed of man broke the whole egg. Lets wait it out, the truth on Sky will come out...

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

So, what are people's thoughts on Landa? He went from an extremely dirty team (Astana) to a highly suspicious team (Sky). If he gets on Valverde's programme he could be unstoppable.

Funny, Astana, "dirty", Sky only "suspicious" yet blow everyone away a la USPS, and Valverde has a "programme".

Are they all not dirty, suspicious and on programmes? Yes they are!

I listed sky as "suspicious" and not "dirty" because they haven't had a major sanction, yet. Even Wiggins has yet to be sanctioned. Astana have had 5 positives in a year. I thought it was obvious that by linking those two together I was implying that sky aren't clean but oh well.

Who is going to sanction, Sky? Cookson, Reedie or an other?

The same culture that allowed Armstrong to win has not changed.

I am almost having a rethink on LA, was he excessively punished since nothing has changed and we have the same drama. But then just when we gave up on LA being exposed, the greed of man broke the whole egg. Lets wait it out, the truth on Sky will come out...

One must remember that the 1999 Tour was the “Tour of redemption” after the Festina scandal. Armstrong rode the wave that everything has now changed just as Sky did in 2012. It’s come somewhat unstuck but the worse is yet to come.

 

[sometriguy]

Re: Sky

So Froome wins number 4, Kwitkowski who has probably done more hard work than anyone else over the last 3 weeks (edit) almost wins the TT, Landa by all counts should have been 2nd or 3rd overall. Thomas wasn't even there for most of the race and probably could have challenged for the overall. The team did almost all of the work on every single stage all tour long......

Look for Team SKY to Moto (team time trial) off the front in Paris tomorrow. Chris can sprint for his much needed stage win and Landa can take bonus seconds in 2nd leap frogging Bardet onto the podium.

Unbelievable

 

[Fergoose]

Re: Re:

[quote="Benotti69]It was all in an interview Brailsford gave to Paul Kimmage in 2009 . It is probably behind an SundayTimes paywall if not deleted from their systems.

here's some of it.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/paul-kimmage-shares-reminder-of-lofty-ethics-at-early-team-sky/

Brailsford in the interview pointed to the 'Tome of transparency' on the table. He talked about being clean and transparent.

Kimmage asked him "if there was a difference between doing the right thing and being seen to do the right thing."

Brailsford replied: “Good point – the only way is to do the right thing regardless of being seen or not.”

I think this is what cost Kimmage his job at the Sunday Times. Methinketh, only a guess, but Brailsford saw that Kimmage would not swallow the BS that was going to flow over the next years

Lots of stuff from that interview have come back to bite Brailsford.

Edit: found it. Still online, not sure if it is the original published.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dave-brailsford-keeping-it-clean-0l73xzcbrjj

2nd edit:Interview Kimmage gave to velonation in 2012

"Anti-doping journalist Paul Kimmage has said that he believes Team Sky has not lived up to the promise it made when the team was founded, namely to be fully transparent and, in doing so, to prove beyond doubt that the Tour de France could be won by a clean team."

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx#ixzz4n7P0pg5a

Brailsford promised to prove beyond doubt...........lots of doubt now.

[/quote]

Thanks for that. The quotes in the first link are very amusing to read given Brailsford's conduct in the past year or so. Hopefully he'll follow his own suggestion and "walk away".

 

[naviman]

Re: Sky

So Froome wins number 4, Kwitkowski who has probably done more hard work than anyone else over the last 3 weeks (edit) almost wins the TT, Landa by all counts should have been 2nd or 3rd overall. Thomas wasn't even there for most of the race and probably could have challenged for the overall. The team did almost all of the work on every single stage all tour long......

Look for Team SKY to Moto (team time trial) off the front in Paris tomorrow. Chris can sprint for his much needed stage win and Landa can take bonus seconds in 2nd leap frogging Bardet onto the podium.

Unbelievable

And when this doesn't happen I assume you will come here and admit you were completely wrong?

I'll give it to you, if this does happen then I will personally travel to wherever you live and kiss your shoe.

 

[sometriguy]

Re: Sky

So Froome wins number 4, Kwitkowski who has probably done more hard work than anyone else over the last 3 weeks (edit) almost wins the TT, Landa by all counts should have been 2nd or 3rd overall. Thomas wasn't even there for most of the race and probably could have challenged for the overall. The team did almost all of the work on every single stage all tour long......

Look for Team SKY to Moto (team time trial) off the front in Paris tomorrow. Chris can sprint for his much needed stage win and Landa can take bonus seconds in 2nd leap frogging Bardet onto the podium.

Unbelievable

And when this doesn't happen I assume you will come here and admit you were completely wrong?

I'll give it to you, if this does happen then I will personally travel to wherever you live and kiss your shoe.

LOL, I don't really expect this to happen. I was making a joke. With all of the sprinters out and no real strong teams, I'm not convinced they couldn't do it. It won't happen, though, if for no other reason than it would piss off a lot of people and add to the endless speculation

 

[Fergoose]

It is worth noting that Uran joins a growing list of former Sky riders (mainly super-domestiques) who perform as well as, or better, when they leave the team.

Uran (Cannondale)
Porte (BMC)
Rodgers (Tinkoff)
Cavendish (Dimension Data)

I fully expect Landa to join that list, particularly if he joins Movistar to replace Valverde. To me this undermines suggestions that Team Sky have special treatment or protection from the authorities.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

It is worth noting that Uran joins a growing list of former Sky riders (mainly super-domestiques) who perform as well as, or better, when they leave the team.

Uran (Cannondale)
Porte (BMC)
Rodgers (Tinkoff)
Cavendish (Dimension Data)

I fully expect Landa to join that list, particularly if he joins Movistar to replace Valverde. To me this undermines suggestions that Team Sky have special treatment or protection from the authorities.

Dimension Data employ Oil Cookson, so your argument falls down there.

Rodgers never had the 'form of his life', that he had at Sky, his words.

Uran finishes 2nd on a TdF podium, is that better than his Giro? Not so sure. He could've won that Giro if not for Wiggins.

Porte none done much since Sky. He had more wins on sky.

Nah sorry.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

It is worth noting that Uran joins a growing list of former Sky riders (mainly super-domestiques) who perform as well as, or better, when they leave the team.

Uran (Cannondale)
Porte (BMC)
Rodgers (Tinkoff)
Cavendish (Dimension Data)

I fully expect Landa to join that list, particularly if he joins Movistar to replace Valverde. To me this undermines suggestions that Team Sky have special treatment or protection from the authorities.

Dimension Data employ Oil Cookson, so your argument falls down there.

Rodgers never had the 'form of his life', that he had at Sky, his words.

Uran finishes 2nd on a TdF podium, is that better than his Giro? Not so sure. He could've won that Giro if not for Wiggins.

Porte none done much since Sky. He had more wins on sky.

Nah sorry.

Uran did not come close to touching Nibali in that Giro. That's taking it a bit far.

 

[sniper]

True or not true, I don't see how it undermines anything.
Team Sky are winning 5 Tours de France with two different riders. The favoritism is well documented. Here is just one of many cases in point:

Sky, at one of their bi-annual meetings, briefed the Tour de France organisers ASO about his precise training regime in Tenerife with his personal coach, Tim Kerrison, making a PowerPoint presentation. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9385050/Tour-de-France-2012-furious-Bradley-Wiggins-hits-out-over-drugs-slurs-as-Thibaut-Pinot-wins-stage-eight.html

We have Pat in 2012 misspeaking about Sky's, errr...the winners' after party.
Then a certain Cookson takes over. No favoritism? Stop insulting my brain.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Rogers has been dubious as all hell every single place he's been.

 

[Arked]

Re:

Kwiatkowski pulling like a mtn goat, that was something to watch or not watch. Kwiatkowski?? When/how did he become so prolific in the mountains?

He is 67-68kg rider with FTP around 420-430. Why wouldn't he be prolific in the mountains? Especially when going over thresholed for 10-15 minutes before his work is over and he can stop at the side of the road.

Kwiatkowski's was always good in the mountains. His problem was consistency and endurance so eventually he always had bad days at some point. Of course for domestique duties it's not the issue.

 

[burning]

Actually, I don't remember any ridiculous performance from him in HTC apart from losing Romandie in last stage, even though he did well in terms of CQ points. But my favorite year of him is 2014, that was even more ridiculous than 2012 or hypothetically 2007, when he crashed out as maillot jaune virtuel.

I remembered this gem though, he casually outsprinted Boonen, Bennati, Zabel, Freire and Paolini: https://youtu.be/f2j0jIIDtio?t=2241