Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Saint Unix]

Re: Sky

So Froome wins number 4, Kwitkowski who has probably done more hard work than anyone else over the last 3 weeks (edit) almost wins the TT, Landa by all counts should have been 2nd or 3rd overall. Thomas wasn't even there for most of the race and probably could have challenged for the overall. The team did almost all of the work on every single stage all tour long......

Look for Team SKY to Moto (team time trial) off the front in Paris tomorrow. Chris can sprint for his much needed stage win and Landa can take bonus seconds in 2nd leap frogging Bardet onto the podium.

Unbelievable

The hilarious thing is the Norwegian commentators spent the entire time trial talking about how it was expected that Aru, Bardet and the rest of his team and others who have worked a bit in the mountains would have a bad time trial, and then when Kwiatkowski and Froome started crushing and Landa almost secured the podium it was a perfectly normal dominant Sky performance as if the last three weeks hadn't happened.

The lack of awareness in those two clowns is hard to listen to at times.

 

[thehog]

Re: Sky

So Froome wins number 4, Kwitkowski who has probably done more hard work than anyone else over the last 3 weeks (edit) almost wins the TT, Landa by all counts should have been 2nd or 3rd overall. Thomas wasn't even there for most of the race and probably could have challenged for the overall. The team did almost all of the work on every single stage all tour long......

Look for Team SKY to Moto (team time trial) off the front in Paris tomorrow. Chris can sprint for his much needed stage win and Landa can take bonus seconds in 2nd leap frogging Bardet onto the podium.

Unbelievable

The hilarious thing is the Norwegian commentators spent the entire time trial talking about how it was expected that Aru, Bardet and the rest of his team and others who have worked a bit in the mountains would have a bad time trial, and then when Kwiatkowski and Froome started crushing and Landa almost secured the podium it was a perfectly normal dominant Sky performance as if the last three weeks hadn't happened.

The lack of awareness in those two clowns is hard to listen to at times.

Don’t forget Landa rode the Giro whereas all other Giro participants cracked to nothing.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Mostly everyone. Pinot was just being Pinot, all over the place in France in July as always, Quintana was disappointing, but Mollema was great after the Giro. Landa was no superman tho, it was clear to me he was gassed as well in the Alps.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Landa was very strong. We never saw his limits. Spent most of the time looking bored, really.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Landa was very strong. We never saw his limits. Spent most of the time looking bored, really.

Landa became a meme “can I go full ***, yet?”

“Seriously, 450w? For an hour? *** this, I’m taking a nap”

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Rogers has been dubious as all hell every single place he's been.

Yep, and he was especially dubious-awesome at Tinkoff. Won the queen stage at the Giro + a tdf stage.

 

[Fergoose]

Re: Re:

Rogers has been dubious as all hell every single place he's been.

Yep, and he was especially dubious-awesome at Tinkoff. Won the queen stage at the Giro + a tdf stage.

Correct. And to try and claim that Porte's form in the past few months hasn't been at or near his career peak is pretty questionable.

 

[Saint Unix]

Rogers was given a lot more freedom at Tinkoff, so he would obviously have a bigger chance of actually winning stages there. I'm not sure he was ever as strong at Tinkoff as he was when he was shackled to the front of the Sky mountain train in 2012. He was an absolute freak that year.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Kwiatkowski pulling like a mtn goat, that was something to watch or not watch. Kwiatkowski?? When/how did he become so prolific in the mountains?

He is 67-68kg rider with FTP around 420-430. Why wouldn't he be prolific in the mountains? Especially when going over thresholed for 10-15 minutes before his work is over and he can stop at the side of the road.

Kwiatkowski's was always good in the mountains. His problem was consistency and endurance so eventually he always had bad days at some point. Of course for domestique duties it's not the issue.

He hasn't climbed this well for four years though. And hasn't really shown it throughout the year at all, before magically refinding his climbing form for three whole weeks.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

It is worth noting that Uran joins a growing list of former Sky riders (mainly super-domestiques) who perform as well as, or better, when they leave the team.

Uran (Cannondale)
Porte (BMC)
Rodgers (Tinkoff)
Cavendish (Dimension Data)

I fully expect Landa to join that list, particularly if he joins Movistar to replace Valverde. To me this undermines suggestions that Team Sky have special treatment or protection from the authorities.

Dimension Data employ Oil Cookson, so your argument falls down there.

Rodgers never had the 'form of his life', that he had at Sky, his words.

Uran finishes 2nd on a TdF podium, is that better than his Giro? Not so sure. He could've won that Giro if not for Wiggins.

Porte none done much since Sky. He had more wins on sky.

Nah sorry.

Uran was better here than he ever has been, climbing wise. Nibali was far better than him in 2013, and Wiggins only held him back for the first week then dropped out. In 2014 his TT was much better, but his climbing was a level below what it has been now.

 

[Arked]

Re: Re:

Kwiatkowski pulling like a mtn goat, that was something to watch or not watch. Kwiatkowski?? When/how did he become so prolific in the mountains?

He is 67-68kg rider with FTP around 420-430. Why wouldn't he be prolific in the mountains? Especially when going over thresholed for 10-15 minutes before his work is over and he can stop at the side of the road.

Kwiatkowski's was always good in the mountains. His problem was consistency and endurance so eventually he always had bad days at some point. Of course for domestique duties it's not the issue.

He hasn't climbed this well for four years though. And hasn't really shown it throughout the year at all, before magically refinding his climbing form for three whole weeks.

He climbed well in 2015 (Paris-Nice etc). Then he had overall sub par 2016 season. This season he regained his good form. He didn't show great climbing pre TdF but notice that he focused on one day races. I remember him saying that on stage races he rather took it easy, having in mind previous season experiences, when he burnt himself out too early and struggled for the remainder of the year. After the classics he spent over 2 months training on altitude specifically for Tour and long sub-threshold/threshold efforts. So his climbing/strong pulling is not that surprising. On contrary. He did exactly what I would expect from well prepared, fresh, on-form Kwiatkowski.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Rogers was given a lot more freedom at Tinkoff, so he would obviously have a bigger chance of actually winning stages there. I'm not sure he was ever as strong at Tinkoff as he was when he was shackled to the front of the Sky mountain train in 2012. He was an absolute freak that year.

Yes, he was. I forget who's arguing what, but whatever the case that Sky 2012 train was just otherwordly.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

It is worth noting that Uran joins a growing list of former Sky riders (mainly super-domestiques) who perform as well as, or better, when they leave the team.

Uran (Cannondale)
Porte (BMC)
Rodgers (Tinkoff)
Cavendish (Dimension Data)

I fully expect Landa to join that list, particularly if he joins Movistar to replace Valverde. To me this undermines suggestions that Team Sky have special treatment or protection from the authorities.

Porte and Rodgers only became great by joining Sky in the first place.

Rodgers performance (and presence) on the team in particular, is something Sky's few remaining believers would probably prefer was left ignored.

 

[The Hitch]

As for Kwiatkowski, I do remember one of our resident Sky fans (who since fled to another forum), openly accusing Kwiatkowski of doping when he was at Radioshack in 2011. No doubt the opinion will have changed since he moved to Sky

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Kwiatkowski pulling like a mtn goat, that was something to watch or not watch. Kwiatkowski?? When/how did he become so prolific in the mountains?

He is 67-68kg rider with FTP around 420-430. Why wouldn't he be prolific in the mountains? Especially when going over thresholed for 10-15 minutes before his work is over and he can stop at the side of the road.

Kwiatkowski's was always good in the mountains. His problem was consistency and endurance so eventually he always had bad days at some point. Of course for domestique duties it's not the issue.

He hasn't climbed this well for four years though. And hasn't really shown it throughout the year at all, before magically refinding his climbing form for three whole weeks.

He climbed well in 2015 (Paris-Nice etc). Then he had overall sub par 2016 season. This season he regained his good form. He didn't show great climbing pre TdF but notice that he focused on one day races. I remember him saying that on stage races he rather took it easy, having in mind previous season experiences, when he burnt himself out too early and struggled for the remainder of the year. After the classics he spent over 2 months training on altitude specifically for Tour and long sub-threshold/threshold efforts. So his climbing/strong pulling is not that surprising. On contrary. He did exactly what I would expect from well prepared, fresh, on-form Kwiatkowski.

Paris Nice didn't have any high mountains. Unless you consider a quick dash up the Col de la Croix de Chauboret high mountain. That doesn't tell me anything of him having regained his climbing form of 2013, and climbing the Col d'Eze as fast as Tony Martin also doesn't tell me anything. Yet, this year, after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing, he isn't able to whittle down the best climbers in the world and finish with them when he needed to (Foix stage). And I'm pretty sure that changing your focus halfway through a year isn't that easy. Not even Valverde can do that. I like Kwiatkowski, and think he's an excellent rider with a great brain, but this Tour has been ridiculous.

 

[ppanther92]

Re:

It is worth noting that Uran joins a growing list of former Sky riders (mainly super-domestiques) who perform as well as, or better, when they leave the team.

Uran (Cannondale)
Porte (BMC)
Rodgers (Tinkoff)
Cavendish (Dimension Data)

I fully expect Landa to join that list, particularly if he joins Movistar to replace Valverde. To me this undermines suggestions that Team Sky have special treatment or protection from the authorities.

Cavendish was only one year there and Sky was never a sprinter's team. He had his best seasons at HTC and Quickstep.

BUT regarding the former three (who are GC riders), they ALL had there best season at Sky cq-ranking-wise. And this is even more remarkeable in my opinion as none of these three was anything higher than the number three in the team hierarchy (behind Wiggins and Froome). So while i give you, that they could somwhat hold their level after Sky, they all clearly had their peak shape at Sky in my opinion (they were domestiques and performed their best seasons).

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Perfectly in line with Zero Tolerance, Tosatto joins Team Sky as a Sport Director
Read more at https://www.teamsky.com/article/tosatto-joins-team-sky-as-a-sport-director#lgJkTOZydGGu3Ro0.99

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Perfectly in line with Zero Tolerance, Tosatto joins Team Sky as a Sport Director
Read more at https://www.teamsky.com/article/tosatto-joins-team-sky-as-a-sport-director#lgJkTOZydGGu3Ro0.99

2000–2005 Fassa Bortolo
2006–2010 Quick-Step–Innergetic
2011–2016 Saxo Bank–SunGard

Cleans, i tell ya!!!! :lol:

Brailsford must have waved a tablet in front of Tosatto with a ZTP app on it and he came up cleans

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Brailsford must have waved a tablet in front of Tosatto with a ZTP app on it and he came up cleans

love it!
the new "looked him in the eyes"

ZTP.
And people wonder why Sky are getting more flack than other teams.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Only the most reckless dopers get caught directly by it and even in those case it's not foolproof, see Kreuziger, Roman.

What are you talking about? He never exceeded any value in BP. How is he one of the most reckless dopers?

"Exceeded any value in BP"? Methinks you don't understand how the BP works.

You gave no explenation why you think I don't understand how BSP works, though. I think quite on the contrary; you don't understand how BSP works. There are some values absolute or relative at BSP which have some ralations. Now if you don't exceed any of it, you are not suspicious. And that was Kreuziger's case. Someone began to investigate him even if he did not exceed anything. It's quite interesting.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

And from what we've since learned, the biopassport is a long way from infallible and people like Kreuziger have successfully argued cases against it.

Could be he was innocent after all. There are two was biopassport can fail; on of them is to detect false positive.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So many US Postal flashbacks today again. The way they just sprinted up the final climb was insane

 

[Rollthedice]

You take Puccio, Rosa, Moscon, Lopez and whoever you want from Sky, throw them in another team and they will get dropped by a pace like they did today. How is it possible that no team in the world can replicate this 400W+ train? By the way "pseudoscientists" calculated Froome at 6.67 W/kg for 11 min. today.

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Sky

Moscon dropping the Dawg :lol:

 

[thehog]

Re: Sky

Moscon dropping the Dawg :lol:

That was funny. Sprinter turned mountain goat along with being a racist. Is there nothing Sky can't do?