- Mar 13, 2013
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Well the scope of UKAD's investigation is Daily Mail's 'allegation of wrongdoing in cycling'. Clearly it can't be one of anti-doping using those words, so expecting something more and not getting it doesn't suggest whitewash alone. The most it can be about is did Fluamicil get injected or did it get nebulized and if injected - who authorised it. 8 to 30 days suspension for an already retired Wiggins and a fine for Team Sky will be the most exciting it can possibly get while remaining within the remit of what an ADO is allowed to investigate.
- Mar 29, 2016
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Re:
There is a good list of relevant articles here http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...estigation-into-team-sky-and-british-cycling/
UKAD also looked into the mysterious packages that turned up - apparently by mistake - plus Freeman's lack of records which could see him get into real trouble (if he ever gets "well").samhocking said:
There is a good list of relevant articles here http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...estigation-into-team-sky-and-british-cycling/
Re: Sky
What illness would be so severe that it would render Freeman incapable of having a conversation with another group of people. Did he write his own doctors note? I just can't fathom how UKAD simply accept at face value his decision to go into hiding citing serious illness. He knew the risk-reward when he was getting into dodgy malpractices and he is intelligent enough to know that the day of reckoning may come along at some stage. He has shown himself to be in the Brailsford category of deception with the faked phone call to evade a reporter, taking his work laptop to Greece, having it stolen but not reporting it, failing to keep medical records and now this 6 month plus protracted sickie. You take the big job, you take the big money then you must know the risks involved. It's very likely he is being advised to go into hiding and there may well be a payoff for his silence. By this very act though he has revealed that it is he who has the keys to the kingdom.
The question is, will CMS accept the whole handling of this situation by UKAD. Already the investigation has been going on for over a year and they must be wondering what exactly is going on at this stage. Are UKAD acting totally independently free of duress and are they actually serious about this whole episode or are they simply in damage limitation mode again simply to try and dampen the story down as with previous cases.
What illness would be so severe that it would render Freeman incapable of having a conversation with another group of people. Did he write his own doctors note? I just can't fathom how UKAD simply accept at face value his decision to go into hiding citing serious illness. He knew the risk-reward when he was getting into dodgy malpractices and he is intelligent enough to know that the day of reckoning may come along at some stage. He has shown himself to be in the Brailsford category of deception with the faked phone call to evade a reporter, taking his work laptop to Greece, having it stolen but not reporting it, failing to keep medical records and now this 6 month plus protracted sickie. You take the big job, you take the big money then you must know the risks involved. It's very likely he is being advised to go into hiding and there may well be a payoff for his silence. By this very act though he has revealed that it is he who has the keys to the kingdom.
The question is, will CMS accept the whole handling of this situation by UKAD. Already the investigation has been going on for over a year and they must be wondering what exactly is going on at this stage. Are UKAD acting totally independently free of duress and are they actually serious about this whole episode or are they simply in damage limitation mode again simply to try and dampen the story down as with previous cases.
- Mar 13, 2013
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Re: Re:
The delivery of other packages was discovered while UKAD was tracking back the order of Fluamicil to Switzerland or wherever it was, so was within scope of that investigation. I can't see what could be investigated regarding the Triamcinolone because that is legal out of competition and most sports doctors would use it to treat injured athletes, so you would expect to find that. Clearly if there's evidence it was used in-competition and that was the reason for ordering it and stocking it, that would be a different matter and require a separate investigation by UKAD. The scope for UKAD is how the Fluamicil was administered to Wiggins & Tiernan Locke's claim he was offered Tramadol for 2012 World Championships. Neither drug is banned in or out of competition, so this is simply a no-needles issue, unless other evidence of possible doping violations in and/or out of competition comes to light in addition to the allegation of wrongdoing from that investigation.
Robert5091 said:
The delivery of other packages was discovered while UKAD was tracking back the order of Fluamicil to Switzerland or wherever it was, so was within scope of that investigation. I can't see what could be investigated regarding the Triamcinolone because that is legal out of competition and most sports doctors would use it to treat injured athletes, so you would expect to find that. Clearly if there's evidence it was used in-competition and that was the reason for ordering it and stocking it, that would be a different matter and require a separate investigation by UKAD. The scope for UKAD is how the Fluamicil was administered to Wiggins & Tiernan Locke's claim he was offered Tramadol for 2012 World Championships. Neither drug is banned in or out of competition, so this is simply a no-needles issue, unless other evidence of possible doping violations in and/or out of competition comes to light in addition to the allegation of wrongdoing from that investigation.
- Aug 12, 2009
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Re: Re:
I think your missing the point....
the contortions sky have gone through only mean one thing....
this taints everything they have done..
the biggest two (actually one) things they have done is to have done is turn 2x donkeys into (dominant) GT winners. A turn of events which is most statistically likely to have been achieved through PEDS....and that's without taking into account the contortions of team management......
the outcome is now not relevant...the process has told us everything....
samhocking said:
I think your missing the point....
the contortions sky have gone through only mean one thing....
this taints everything they have done..
the biggest two (actually one) things they have done is to have done is turn 2x donkeys into (dominant) GT winners. A turn of events which is most statistically likely to have been achieved through PEDS....and that's without taking into account the contortions of team management......
the outcome is now not relevant...the process has told us everything....
- May 26, 2010
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Obfuscation at its best.
Sky the so called cleanest of clean teams that paid attention to every little detail and left no stone untruned in its quest for 'marginal gains' has no medical records. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :lol:
Nothing is defensible about Sky being clean. Nothing.
Sky dope and more than likely use motors. Whether we find that out, IDGAF, because it doesn't matter whether it is Sky or USPS or Qucikstep or Garmin, they are all, IMO, at some level cheating their little hearts out to whatever level they can afford and bribe.
But please stop trying to pretend Sky are clean. You look rather stupid. The question that has to be answered in order to start the discussion of Sky being clean (which is pointless since we know they are not) is where and when did the sport change its culture of doping so that everyone in the sport who before went about the business of doping and looking for new and better ways to dope stopped and said, oh we just need to warm up, wash hands, own pillows, own mattresses, no nutella, pineapple juice in the bidon, blah blah and not EPO, HGH, Steroids, Corticosteroids, Clenbuterol, AICAR, GW150, etc etc etc etc etc
Never mind that Sky have been caught lying continuously about f*****g everything.
samhocking said:
Obfuscation at its best.
Sky the so called cleanest of clean teams that paid attention to every little detail and left no stone untruned in its quest for 'marginal gains' has no medical records. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :lol:
Nothing is defensible about Sky being clean. Nothing.
Sky dope and more than likely use motors. Whether we find that out, IDGAF, because it doesn't matter whether it is Sky or USPS or Qucikstep or Garmin, they are all, IMO, at some level cheating their little hearts out to whatever level they can afford and bribe.
But please stop trying to pretend Sky are clean. You look rather stupid. The question that has to be answered in order to start the discussion of Sky being clean (which is pointless since we know they are not) is where and when did the sport change its culture of doping so that everyone in the sport who before went about the business of doping and looking for new and better ways to dope stopped and said, oh we just need to warm up, wash hands, own pillows, own mattresses, no nutella, pineapple juice in the bidon, blah blah and not EPO, HGH, Steroids, Corticosteroids, Clenbuterol, AICAR, GW150, etc etc etc etc etc
Never mind that Sky have been caught lying continuously about f*****g everything.
- Mar 13, 2013
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The DM allegation is Wiggins was injected (we assume with Fluimicil given UKAD allowed Brailsford to say what it was in a letter handed to him) just 1 month after UCI introduced no-needle policy at Giro. Even if Sky didn't contort their story in those first few days so randomly, injecting Fluimcil is clearly not turning 2x donkeys into (dominant) GT winners as you put it, any more than a TUE for Triamcinolone does either. We know both substances are used by those competing against Sky, so where is the difference? This is what I mean by the scope of the UKAD investigation. Hoping for anything more than an injection of Fluimicil after Dauphine is just that given what the allegation's scope in the first place is.
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Re: Re:
I've never said Sky are clean how you think being clean means? I believe they're legally clean and this is perhaps a change in team culture, i.e. your objective is not to evade testing positive with something illegal, it's to not place your riders in a situation that is illegal in the first place. If a team has in-house doctors, medication is being used, you expect it to be used and in Sky's case, they claim legally in terms of anti-doping rules. So far that is the case, even with 50 injections of stored Triamcinolone being the most damning, but in itself not evidence of illegal doping just as a TUE isn't either. I don't believe ethics come into it unless ethics is included in WADA's code and it simply isn't, because anti-doping or not can't be measured that way at CAS.
Benotti69 said:
I've never said Sky are clean how you think being clean means? I believe they're legally clean and this is perhaps a change in team culture, i.e. your objective is not to evade testing positive with something illegal, it's to not place your riders in a situation that is illegal in the first place. If a team has in-house doctors, medication is being used, you expect it to be used and in Sky's case, they claim legally in terms of anti-doping rules. So far that is the case, even with 50 injections of stored Triamcinolone being the most damning, but in itself not evidence of illegal doping just as a TUE isn't either. I don't believe ethics come into it unless ethics is included in WADA's code and it simply isn't, because anti-doping or not can't be measured that way at CAS.
- Aug 12, 2009
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Re:
that the investigation is but a small part of a picture is not under dispute, nor is what the investigation can 'find', in terms of its scope
however we have move passed that...in seeking to lie its way out of what, if we are to believe their line, is nothing, the team has shown that its turning of 2 donkeys into GT winners can only ever have been achived one way...we don't need to await the outcome of any investigation to understand that...wiggins, sutton, SDB etc al have more than demonstrated it.....
this investigation while of interest is now a side show....the main event is awaiting the edifice to crumble and for froome to be exposed...its already too late for Wiggins...he now just looks foolish....pity...he very nearly got away with it.....
samhocking said:
that the investigation is but a small part of a picture is not under dispute, nor is what the investigation can 'find', in terms of its scope
however we have move passed that...in seeking to lie its way out of what, if we are to believe their line, is nothing, the team has shown that its turning of 2 donkeys into GT winners can only ever have been achived one way...we don't need to await the outcome of any investigation to understand that...wiggins, sutton, SDB etc al have more than demonstrated it.....
this investigation while of interest is now a side show....the main event is awaiting the edifice to crumble and for froome to be exposed...its already too late for Wiggins...he now just looks foolish....pity...he very nearly got away with it.....
- Mar 13, 2013
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So we're back to talking hypothetically about something we don't know they have done, but because they won't tell us and what they do tell us isn't believable it must be happening because 2 riders didn't used to win Tour de France and now they do? Anti-doping or toppling anything or anyone doesn't work that way gillan.
- Aug 12, 2009
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anti-doping didn't topple lance nor countless others........
we've moved past anti-doping violations and proof of doping...its too easily gamed
and the 2 riders didn't just not win the tour...they showed absolutely no indication that ever would win the tour.....
sky couldn't have made it any more obvious.......
samhocking said:
anti-doping didn't topple lance nor countless others........
we've moved past anti-doping violations and proof of doping...its too easily gamed
and the 2 riders didn't just not win the tour...they showed absolutely no indication that ever would win the tour.....
sky couldn't have made it any more obvious.......
Re:
I disagree. I should expect that the investigation would look at both the specific incidents (flumuicil and testosterone etc.) but also whether Sky's governance wrt doping was fit for purpose, and whether there is any evidence that the team management and management structures created a climate in which such incidents were enabled through incompetence (systems were crap; people were crap at adhering to them) or 'omerta' (systems / assurance / enforcement deliberately poor; people ignored rules with impunity - don't look, don't find etc.).
Does anyone know what the 'burden of proof' is for these kind of enquiries? i.e. is this a 'criminal court' kind of requirement - beyond reasonable doubt - or more like a small claims court - i.e. balance of probabilities?
My guess is we'll find a 'serious questions to answer' kind of tone, but with 'no evidence of doping violations. Overall conclusion - need to strength systems and culture to address shortcomings etc etc. All nicely passive voice, third person (stuff happened but no-one actually did it), i.e. no one going to be held to account.
samhocking said:
I disagree. I should expect that the investigation would look at both the specific incidents (flumuicil and testosterone etc.) but also whether Sky's governance wrt doping was fit for purpose, and whether there is any evidence that the team management and management structures created a climate in which such incidents were enabled through incompetence (systems were crap; people were crap at adhering to them) or 'omerta' (systems / assurance / enforcement deliberately poor; people ignored rules with impunity - don't look, don't find etc.).
Does anyone know what the 'burden of proof' is for these kind of enquiries? i.e. is this a 'criminal court' kind of requirement - beyond reasonable doubt - or more like a small claims court - i.e. balance of probabilities?
My guess is we'll find a 'serious questions to answer' kind of tone, but with 'no evidence of doping violations. Overall conclusion - need to strength systems and culture to address shortcomings etc etc. All nicely passive voice, third person (stuff happened but no-one actually did it), i.e. no one going to be held to account.
- Mar 29, 2016
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SDB has thrown Freeman under the bus and the hub so it's not surprising he's"sick". 
The Murdochs have very deep pockets so without a whistleblower, the UKAD & CMS investigations are not going much further IMO. These people have no qualms bribing senior policemen etc remember.
The Murdochs have very deep pockets so without a whistleblower, the UKAD & CMS investigations are not going much further IMO. These people have no qualms bribing senior policemen etc remember.
It's next to impossible for UKAD to charge Sky over the 'mystery package' unless they have indisputable evidence of the contents of the package. The CMS committee is irrelevant because it's merely a chance for blind and deaf politicians to gain there 15 minutes of fame.
P
P
- Feb 16, 2010
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Re:
and yet, they have shed a light into where the anti doping agencies have not
not bad for a bunch of cretins who have a different day job....
yaco said:
and yet, they have shed a light into where the anti doping agencies have not
not bad for a bunch of cretins who have a different day job....
- Jul 4, 2010
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Re: Sky
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bernal-ready-to-step-up-to-worldtour-level-with-team-sky/
So according to this Savio knows the Dawg's VO2Max numbers
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bernal-ready-to-step-up-to-worldtour-level-with-team-sky/
So according to this Savio knows the Dawg's VO2Max numbers
Re: Re:
The same cretins who were cheerleaders during this whole reign of suspicious activities by Sky and British Cycling.
The same cretins who at the same time generously funded these organisations.
The same cretins who are now grandstanding to gain popular support.
Let's see if and what changes are made to Sky and British Cycling.
gillan1969 said:
The same cretins who were cheerleaders during this whole reign of suspicious activities by Sky and British Cycling.
The same cretins who at the same time generously funded these organisations.
The same cretins who are now grandstanding to gain popular support.
Let's see if and what changes are made to Sky and British Cycling.
Re: Sky
Nah, Savio just mentions the GSK study, 84.6mL/kg/min is Froome result corrected from 70kg to TdF weight into 88.2 mL/kg/min, with an asterisk saying "Assumes maintenance of absolute VRO2peak at lower weight"
MartinGT said:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bernal-ready-to-step-up-to-worldtour-level-with-team-sky/
So according to this Savio knows the Dawg's VO2Max numbers
Nah, Savio just mentions the GSK study, 84.6mL/kg/min is Froome result corrected from 70kg to TdF weight into 88.2 mL/kg/min, with an asterisk saying "Assumes maintenance of absolute VRO2peak at lower weight"
- May 23, 2009
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Re:
Don't give up! :lol:
If nothing but fluimicil really was transported all the way from Manchester then serious questions need to be asked about WTF BC and Sky are doing with their lottery funding. If such frivolous courier trips can be made instead of a 5 minute drive to the local pharmacy, who knows what other ways government directed funds are being misappropriated...
samhocking said:
Don't give up! :lol:
If nothing but fluimicil really was transported all the way from Manchester then serious questions need to be asked about WTF BC and Sky are doing with their lottery funding. If such frivolous courier trips can be made instead of a 5 minute drive to the local pharmacy, who knows what other ways government directed funds are being misappropriated...
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