Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Robert5091]

So going by the number of threads and posts on this forum, Sky are getting a good return for their money!

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

So going by the number of threads and posts on this forum, Sky are getting a good return for their money!

So all publicity is good publicity and you think Clinicians are more ... what, sympathetic to Sky, more prone to rush out and buy a subscription, as a consequence of all this valuable free publicity?

Worth pointing out that the people who did that survey for CN, saying what a brilliant return Sly were getting, also do PR work for Sky, conducting surveys of fans.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

So going by the number of threads and posts on this forum, Sky are getting a good return for their money!

Going by these numbers all other teams seem idiot for not putting up more money

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

For the slow learners in the audience - or quick learners, even - let's define terms. Financial doping. What is it? According to the Collins dictionary it's

1. the situation in which a sports franchise borrows heavily in order to contract and pay high-performing players, jeopardizing their long-term financial future

2. the situation in which the owner of a sports franchise invests his or her own personal wealth into securing high-performing players, rather than relying on the revenue the franchise is able to generate for itself

Have Sky borrowed heavily? No. So we'll nix that line. Have the owners injected their own wealth? Well, Sky - Tour Racing Limited - is owned by Sky (85%) and 21st Century Fox (15%). Are Sky and Fox injecting their own money into the team, rather than letting the team survive on revenue it is able to generate from other sources? Well, in 2011, owner money accounted for 63% of all income. By 2016 that has risen to 75%. So, you know, I think we should at least be open to the possibility that I might actually have used the correct term, don't you?

Sky back the team as a form of advertising as is the case with all cycling teams. A study commissioned by this website found that for the £31 million Sky spends on the team, the team's success generates more than $500 million in equivalent advertising. The team is more than value for money.

I've always found that a bit funny, reporting as equivalent advertising dollars. The reason is because this is non-targetted advertising. Cycling fans will see the Sky logo (impressions) X billion times, which is equivalent to Y million in advertising cost. But what is the demographic (global, national, and local) that Sky wishes to reach, and what is the corresponding demographic of those impressions? Really, these values should be weighted by an "effectiveness" factor. It's kind of like saying that a manufacturer of feminine hygiene products got a billion worth of advertising by sponsoring a champion MMA fighter...

John Swanson

i think that whilst useful the definition should be widened as its less the 'situations' as described but the outcomes...do the outcomes skew what might otherwise have taken place (all other things being equal)....whilst radios a power metres have their part to play in the borefest...having a team that constitutes about 30% of the final group on the final climb changes what we know 'racing' to be...it's something, but its not racing................

there is also the virtuous vicious cycle which you say play out i the english premiership...if your 'in'n its great but for those outside...the grim day-to-day financial realities are grim (when assessed against the overall money swilling around the game)

 

[Cycle Chic]

So Moscon riding the dell'Emilia has morphed into Froome - seated attack , mad cadence. Thats no coincidence....if it were peds why would he change his style ?? he has changed his riding because it fits with the motor doping.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

So Moscon riding the dell'Emilia has morphed into Froome - seated attack , mad cadence. Thats no coincidence....if it were peds why would he change his style ?? he has changed his riding because it fits with the motor doping.

when he attacked in Bergen he sprinted out of the saddle with Alaphilippe

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re: Re:

So Moscon riding the dell'Emilia has morphed into Froome - seated attack , mad cadence. Thats no coincidence....if it were peds why would he change his style ?? he has changed his riding because it fits with the motor doping.

when he attacked in Bergen he sprinted out of the saddle with Alaphilippe

I,m not saying he never gets out of the saddle....but he is now riding just like Froome. On the climbs in Emilio it was like watching Froome. And this is a sprinter.

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

So Moscon riding the dell'Emilia has morphed into Froome - seated attack , mad cadence. Thats no coincidence....if it were peds why would he change his style ?? he has changed his riding because it fits with the motor doping.

when he attacked in Bergen he sprinted out of the saddle with Alaphilippe

I,m not saying he never gets out of the saddle....but he is now riding just like Froome. On the climbs in Emilio it was like watching Froome. And this is a sprinter.

"riding just like Froome" - could be the "Sky system"?

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

So Moscon riding the dell'Emilia has morphed into Froome - seated attack , mad cadence. Thats no coincidence....if it were peds why would he change his style ?? he has changed his riding because it fits with the motor doping.

Not necessarily....some PED's increase aerobic capacities whilst doing nothing for muscular strength. This would also fit with a shift to higher cadence efforts which place the load on the CV system more so than out of the saddle lower cadence efforts which place more demands on strength.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

So Moscon riding the dell'Emilia has morphed into Froome - seated attack , mad cadence. Thats no coincidence....if it were peds why would he change his style ?? he has changed his riding because it fits with the motor doping.

Not necessarily....some PED's increase aerobic capacities whilst doing nothing for muscular strength. This would also fit with a shift to higher cadence efforts which place the load on the CV system more so than out of the saddle lower cadence efforts which place more demands on strength.

Muscular strength doesn't necessarily have to be the limiting factor. However, muscular efficiency changes with both force and contraction velocity and I don't really know if this can be affected by PEDs.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Has to be said, Moscon is having a helluva year. The man's a one-man PR magnet. The latest? Reichenbach's fall:

“I’m filing a complaint against Gianni Moscon because he intentionally put me on the ground,” Reichenbach told Le Nouvelliste on Wednesday morning. “It was intentional. Several riders saw the action and are ready to provide testimony on my behalf. He deliberately threw himself against me. On a descent, the accident could have had even more serious consequences. My team, FDJ, has encouraged me to file a complaint. They will support me.”

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Has to be said, Moscon is having a helluva year. The man's a one-man PR magnet. The latest? Reichenbach's fall:

“I’m filing a complaint against Gianni Moscon because he intentionally put me on the ground,” Reichenbach told Le Nouvelliste on Wednesday morning. “It was intentional. Several riders saw the action and are ready to provide testimony on my behalf. He deliberately threw himself against me. On a descent, the accident could have had even more serious consequences. My team, FDJ, has encouraged me to file a complaint. They will support me.”

All publicity is good publicity.
When is Sky announcing the 10 year deal with Moscon? :lol:

 

[miguelindurain111]

Poels' motor only sixth fastest today

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Poels' motor only sixth fastest today

Naah..he didn't use a motor today. He didnt look back. :lol:

 

[Benotti69]

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

 

[samhocking]

Re:

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.

Didn't Wiggins say that the entire marginal gains spiel was bs?

 

[rick james]

Lol, sky have magic pillows.....truth, everyone travels with own pillows. Not really debunking things is it, good try all the same

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Lol, sky have magic pillows.....truth, everyone travels with own pillows. Not really debunking things is it, good try all the same

Who are you replying to as you failed to quote anyone in particular? I'm more inclined to believe someone that has been a vital part of both systems, the Sky team and British cycling, than anything you might have to say.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.

Didn't Wiggins say that the entire marginal gains spiel was bs?

He said the marginal gains spoken about was ***. The real gains are in training, none of which Sky or BC ever divulge, even to their riders - why would they?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.

Didn't Wiggins say that the entire marginal gains spiel was bs?

He said the marginal gains spoken about was ******. The real gains are in training, none of which Sky or BC ever divulge, even to their riders - why would they?

Would those be the MGs that Yates, De Jongh, jullich, Knaven and Dr Leinders brought to Sky :lol:

These MGs are so good the riders dont even know them :lol: :lol:

 

[samhocking]

No, more like the burger van, NDA's, Cambridge Uni.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.

people say and know and claim the marginal gains is just propaganda and markering stunts, which it is, yet they have to debunk and explain them one by one from pillows to "muc-off".
people reading the clinic or that blog already know that.
people following sky and not caring will keep believing the marginal gains. I know, it´s hard we can´t let all those people believe in marginal gains. they have to know! it´s a mission. pro cycling asks us to do that
ok ok I know. I´ll stop it.

 

[samhocking]

Well to simply ommit/miss a £1 Million a year department from Sky's marginal gains and NDA's as marginal gains, suggests nobody actually knows what they are talking about and simply look at press releases tp plagiarise and use as 'evidence'. It's deluded.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete

Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.

There is why i believe Sam is more than a fan.

Cycling is as you know a small world. They have already had a lot of employees through Sky so even if there were an agregation of gains being made on methods, they would have filtered out to other teams very quickly as riders talked and discussed things with others in the peloton, never mind that Jullich, DeJongh and others moved to other teams. So the idea they got any gains, is laughable, as it also supposes other teams are junkie teams just shooting up and racing. But those who follow the sport know that others are just as searching looking for new improvements, nutrition (see Sean Kelly talking about Jean de Gribaldy's attention to nutrition in the 80s), bike tech etc etc. We know Coppi's unrelenting search for performance enhancement. Heck if we believed Sky, it would seem everyone rode wooden bikes till they came along. But we know sky tell lies, we know that the sport has always had a thirst for knowledge and improvement, some are just so gullible and others, well they are just trying to obfuscate.

Remember Sky did value Froome enough to put him in a windtunnel or check his bloods enough and discover Bilharzia.

:lol: