Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I love the faith in the GMC. Hope springs eternal...

Well, if Freeman, BC & Sky are made to explain their lack of medical records, it'll be worth the price of the popcorn.

You don't understand - It's an issue between GMC and any of the doctor's on Sky's payroll at that time - Any possible action taken by the GMC against a medical practitioner will end up at best as a one sentence press release - Nothing will be made public for discussion.

 

[70kmph]

not enough evidence even though everything pointed toward wrongdoing.
Sky didn't co-operate with the investigation, on the contrary they used every opportunity to make their own version of the events. Also Freeman must know even more about everything inside Sky, hes a ticking time bomb...

Edited by King Boonen: Please don't state opinion as fact.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I love the faith in the GMC. Hope springs eternal...

Well, if Freeman, BC & Sky are made to explain their lack of medical records, it'll be worth the price of the popcorn.

You don't understand - It's an issue between GMC and any of the doctor's on Sky's payroll at that time - Any possible action taken by the GMC against a medical practitioner will end up at best as a one sentence press release - Nothing will be made public for discussion.

Do you even bother to check these things before you state them?

https://www.mpts-uk.org/decisions/data/1530.asp

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Sky

Wiggo:

2003 -DNF at the Giro due to allergies
2003 -Cofidis - French Cycling Federation grants TUE for Fluticasone and Salbutamol
2004 -Credit-Agricole -Authorization to compete at the summer Olympics using Fluticasone and Salbutamol under IOC doping regulations after a series of lung function tests
2005 - 2008 - FDJ - Went back to IOC each year for renewal--lung funsion tests, nasal endoscopy, etc
2008 - High Road - TUE for Salbutamol, Budesonide & Formoterol.
2009 - Garmin - Repeat of 2008 High Road TUE
2010 - Sky - none
2011-2013 - Sky - Triamcinolone

Thanks, interesting

And fair to say that on standard asthma/allergy meds Wiggo was pack fodder - but once he got a TUE for triamcinolone he became a world beater

In that context it's worth revisiting WADA's guidelines for granting a TUE (para 1.1.3 here):

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/WADA_TUE_Guidelines_V4.0_EN.pdf

"The four criteria that must be fulfilled before a TUE is granted are set forth in the International Standard for TUEs:

1. “The Athlete would experience a significant impairment to health if the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method were to be withheld in the course of treating an acute or chronic medical condition.”

2. “The therapeutic Use of the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method would produce no additional enhancement of performance other than that which might be anticipated by a return to a state of normal health following the treatment of a legitimate medical condition.

3. “There is no reasonable therapeutic alternative to the Use of the otherwise Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.”

4. The necessity for the Use of the otherwise Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method cannot be a consequence, wholly or in part, of prior non-therapeutic Use of any substance from the Prohibited
List

A TUE may be granted only if these four criteria are fulfilled. Use of any substance from the Prohibited"

On the bolded bit - using triamcinolone didn't return Wiggo to pack fodder level which is all that is allowed under the WADA Code - it made him a world beater!

And how did Sky and Wiggo pull that blag?

Well Sky hired Leinders who taught Freeman how to game the TUE system

And the UCI were complicit because no way should Leinders' old pal Zorzoli have approved Wiggo's TUE requests (they wouldn't get through now Zorzoli has gone)

 

[Ironhead Slim]

Re:

So you're implying before he was even part of British Cycling or pro cycling, someone at his Archer Road Club got him using an inhalers to win Wednesday night schoolboy track leagues. Bit far-fetched perhaps?

Easier to believe than that he is clean and has been exonerated!

 

[DanielSong39]

Re: Re:

Well I for one am totally gutted, I was hoping for Nibali to be handed a 2nd TDF with a Wiggins charge

Corrected.

Lol Nibali...aye sure

it´s the old good doper vs bad doper story. that´s where it ends after of all our discussions.

Can't argue with that one; they all lie, cheat, and steal so it's pointless to assign any value to their accomplishments.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I love the faith in the GMC. Hope springs eternal...

Well, if Freeman, BC & Sky are made to explain their lack of medical records, it'll be worth the price of the popcorn.

You don't understand - It's an issue between GMC and any of the doctor's on Sky's payroll at that time - Any possible action taken by the GMC against a medical practitioner will end up at best as a one sentence press release - Nothing will be made public for discussion.

Do you even bother to check these things before you state them?

https://www.mpts-uk.org/decisions/data/1530.asp

I was referring to any public comments by the GMC or affected medical practitioners in this particular case - It will be limited to a carefully crafted press release - Obviously there will be continued press coverage of this event for many months in the future.

I am surprised that seemingly full transcripts of disciplinary hearings are publically available on the GMC website - It makes sense that disciplined or struck off doctors are listed on the GMC site - It makes me wonder why NADO's and in some cases CAS, don't make available full transcripts of all their reasoned decisions, which seem to be done on an ad-hoc basis.

 

[kingjr]

@Wiggo's PAckage, the key year is 2009, that's when he became a top GC rider, I don't see any Triamcinolone there.

 

[meat puppet]

2009? Epo, transfusions and AICAR you cannot get a tue for.

 

[veganrob]

Re:

@Wiggo's PAckage, the key year is 2009, that's when he became a top GC rider, I don't see any Triamcinolone there.

2009 he most likely could not get a TUE because he was racing for Garmin but was being trained by Sky/BC. If you choose to believe, JV claims he had nothing to do at all with Wiggins training or preparation and only saw him when he showed up for races. I think they all knew way before it was announced that Wiggins was going to Sky

 

[veganrob]

Re:

2009? Epo, transfusions and AICAR you cannot get a tue for.

And yes here also.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/42033692

Team Sky have been accused of "gaming the system" by seeking permission for their riders to take otherwise banned drugs on the basis of medical need.

British former professional cyclist David Millar has told a BBC documentary the team's use of therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) was "incredibly disappointing".

But Shane Sutton, a former senior coach at both Team Sky and British Cycling, told the programme - to be aired on BBC Two on Sunday - that he and his riders "never crossed the line".

Time to buy more popcorn!

Program airs 21.00 on BBC 2 Sunday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09glhsh

 

[veganrob]

David Millar said that? I wouldn't expect that from him.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

David Millar said that? I wouldn't expect that from him.

Why is that?
David Millar and Wiggo have been trading punches for some time now. Plus the British people listen to Millar.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...adley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...s-bradley-wigginss-tue-steroids-banned-285333
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/16414621

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Millar could have aired his views more usefully earlier on.
During a race commentary would have been honester.
Millar : pot calling kettle black?

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/42033692

Team Sky have been accused of "gaming the system" by seeking permission for their riders to take otherwise banned drugs on the basis of medical need.

British former professional cyclist David Millar has told a BBC documentary the team's use of therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) was "incredibly disappointing".

But Shane Sutton, a former senior coach at both Team Sky and British Cycling, told the programme - to be aired on BBC Two on Sunday - that he and his riders "never crossed the line".

Time to buy more popcorn!

Program airs 21.00 on BBC 2 Sunday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09glhsh

So Sutton has admitted that Sky gamed the system by using TUEs for performance gains

Time to re-post the WADA guidelines...

"WADA's guidelines for granting a TUE (para 1.1.3 here):

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/WADA_TUE_Guidelines_V4.0_EN.pdf

"The four criteria that must be fulfilled before a TUE is granted are set forth in the International Standard for TUEs:

1. The Athlete would experience a significant impairment to health if the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method were to be withheld in the course of treating an acute or chronic medical condition.”

2. The therapeutic Use of the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method would produce no additional enhancement of performance other than that which might be anticipated by a return to a state of normal health following the treatment of a legitimate medical condition.

3. There is no reasonable therapeutic alternative to the Use of the otherwise Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.

4. The necessity for the Use of the otherwise Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method cannot be a consequence, wholly or in part, of prior non-therapeutic Use of any substance from the Prohibited
List

A TUE may be granted only if these four criteria are fulfilled. Use of any substance from the Prohibited"

How are the fanboys gonna rationalise away this one...

 

[fmk_RoI]

The doctor at the centre of the Team Sky jiffy bag scandal was confronted by British Cycling chiefs after turning up at the World Cup in Manchester last weekend.

Sportsmail understands that the moment Julie Harrington was made aware that Dr Richard Freeman — who left his position with British Cycling last month — was in the HSBC UK National Cycling Centre, the body's new chief executive approached him in the cafe and encouraged him to leave.

It is believed Harrington, while powerless to eject Freeman from a public building, questioned the wisdom of him being there and said it would be better if he went. Freeman did not depart immediately but he was not seen again at the venue that weekend.

deets

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

The doctor at the centre of the Team Sky jiffy bag scandal was confronted by British Cycling chiefs after turning up at the World Cup in Manchester last weekend.

Sportsmail understands that the moment Julie Harrington was made aware that Dr Richard Freeman — who left his position with British Cycling last month — was in the HSBC UK National Cycling Centre, the body's new chief executive approached him in the cafe and encouraged him to leave.

It is believed Harrington, while powerless to eject Freeman from a public building, questioned the wisdom of him being there and said it would be better if he went. Freeman did not depart immediately but he was not seen again at the venue that weekend.

deets

<tick> <tick> <tick> <tick> <tick> BOOM!!

John Swanson

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

So you're implying before he was even part of British Cycling or pro cycling, someone at his Archer Road Club got him using an inhalers to win Wednesday night schoolboy track leagues. Bit far-fetched perhaps?

Easier to believe than that he is clean and has been exonerated!

Isn't that how they start off and end up doping? A first innocent step then another slightly less innocent one before ending up doping? How many coke heads start off on cocaine?

 

[zalacain]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/18/shane-sutton-bradley-wiggins-tues

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

BC's response:

UKAD’s findings represent an organisation and culture that, despite delivering on the world stage, did not meet the high standards that British Cycling today holds itself to. We note that UKAD have referred information arising from their investigation to the General Medical Council and we offer them our wholehearted cooperation.

Freeman the fall guy then

I wonder how much Sky paid him to take the flack including pulling a perpetual sicky

some allegation to make

In what way...?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-5090735/British-cycling-chief-warns-Bradley-Wiggins-doctor.html

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...cling-chief-warns-Bradley-Wiggins-doctor.html
The doc's so sick he thinks he still works at the National Cycling Centre.

 

[Craigee]

Re:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...cling-chief-warns-Bradley-Wiggins-doctor.html
The doc's so sick he thinks he still works at the National Cycling Centre.

Just more circumstantial evidence to add to all the accusations against Sky and British Cycling. I was actually feeling sorry for Freeman. What a sucker I was. People get found guilty in court on the same amount of circumstantial evidence but this lot get away with it and flaunt it all in everyone's faces. Wiggins saying he never got the jiffy bag? Freeman was supposedly too crook to testify but as soon as he's let off the hook he shows up at a local World Cup? The *** is never ending with these people.

 

[coinneach]

Re: Sky

I was relatively impressed by the bbc programme last night, it’s got the hypocracy and the issues out into mainstream, even if it didn’t nail them.
It’s revealing how Brailsford is still there, but looked less confident when defending Wiggins TUE.
His attempt to leave Freeman to shoulder the blame is not credible when you think of the power differential between them....Freeman was very much part of the Sky BC set up: he was no rouge doctor working out of control like may have been the case in the past.

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

<tick> <tick> <tick> <tick> <tick> BOOM!!

John Swanson

My thoughts exactly, the bloke is a ticking time bomb, get him as far away from us as possible. He knows far too much!