Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Can't respond individually to all the crazy comments above (jeez, are you guys on drugs?), but we had a very mediocre GIRO in 2020 won by a pretty mediocre rider not doing anything much beyond mediocre (that "thrilling" time-trial final stage for example)

Whereas, we have CLEAR examples of superhumans destroying the competition in time-trials and gaining MINUTES with INDIVIDUAL climbing efforts in the biggest races in last two years,, which you never saw with Sky/Ineos.

Stop being stupid people, a multi-million pound government backed investigation was done against British Cycling and they found a few dodgy TUEs and a testosterone order to an idiot in Manchester. No other nation has attempted such an investigation except USA, and we all know what they found.

Sorry to state the obvious again and again, Sky/Ineos won by paying for a hugely powerful train - now we are back to the dark times, with Superhumans.

The ignorant still seem to point to Froome's spectacular Stage 19 win at the 2018 Giro as "superhuman" - but any sensible person who analysed that knows that the chase group was extremely handicapped, Pinot abandoned the next day with illness, Reichenbach couldn't descend ("like an old lady") and Carapaz and Lopez were battling each other and just hung on the back - Dumoulin was dumb not to take off on his own and try to catch Froome in a mano a mano time trial - I mean just the previous year, after virtually no season races he managed to win Gold in the Worlds, catching Froome on the climb no less, who was in peak form after his Vuelta win, and beating him by over a minute (oh that sounds familiar recently). (Roglic's dodgy silver medal went under the radar).
Froome in 2013 doesn’t ring any bells? Froome transformation from a mid to back of the peloton rider in 2011 doesn’t alarm you? Wiggins going from a track/flat course rider to winning the Tour doesn’t flummox you? Then Thomas? Bernal is the least shocking. He’s got the talent and the makeup of a classic climber and a GC man.
 
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The british oligarch Ratcliffe was allowed to buy 33% of Mercedes F1 team on the condition that Mercedes won’t get bad PR from the cycling team. I’m sure Ineos won’t go full doping mode for this reason.

Something similar is the case with Bahrain. The Bahraini dictator/king dropped the name of his F1 team from the cycling team. Even if someone is busted from TBV, the average person can’t connect this to McLaren.
 
Lets ignore

Henao. Why not publish the studies?
JTL - Sky known for no stone unturned but didn't bother to test him properly before signing him. A rider who apparently the day before his biggest race of his career he gets smashed off his head on champers
Froomes case. Dropping a 30k page document on a study on asthma in dogs to WADA the day before the Tour.


Yeh you're right. We're the stupid ones on drugs.
 
Lets ignore

Henao. Why not publish the studies?
JTL - Sky known for no stone unturned but didn't bother to test him properly before signing him. A rider who apparently the day before his biggest race of his career he gets smashed off his head on champers
Froomes case. Dropping a 30k page document on a study on asthma in dogs to WADA the day before the Tour.


Yeh you're right. We're the stupid ones on drugs.
maybe i'm an average person, but at least, i know that it is standard to do PK studies on dogs and extrapolate models to human.
 
What was the result, something like taking 300 puffs on a normal ventolin. What was the dog a newfoundland?

Come on man.

What was the result, something like taking 300 puffs on a normal ventolin. What was the dog a newfoundland?

Come on man.
knowing the number of pages in the study, you might think you read it ................ or else , it's a number taken at random to impress . i didn't read the study, like you.......
google dogs and PK studie, they are used to test different treatments for different diseases,
 
The british oligarch Ratcliffe was allowed to buy 33% of Mercedes F1 team on the condition that Mercedes won’t get bad PR from the cycling team.
Gosh. The access some users of this forum have.
So, yeah...
Something similar is the case with Bahrain. The Bahraini dictator/king dropped the name of his F1 team from the cycling team.
Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company owns 56% of the F1 team. The decision to withdraw was not wholly theirs. I would ask for the evidence supporting the claim that the withdrawal was because of doping but I know that would be a total waste of time when the forum's rules allow people to say any old shite.
 
Can't respond individually to all the crazy comments above (jeez, are you guys on drugs?), but we had a very mediocre GIRO in 2020 won by a pretty mediocre rider not doing anything much beyond mediocre (that "thrilling" time-trial final stage for example)

Whereas, we have CLEAR examples of superhumans destroying the competition in time-trials and gaining MINUTES with INDIVIDUAL climbing efforts in the biggest races in last two years,, which you never saw with Sky/Ineos.

Stop being stupid people, a multi-million pound government backed investigation was done against British Cycling and they found a few dodgy TUEs and a testosterone order to an idiot in Manchester. No other nation has attempted such an investigation except USA, and we all know what they found.

Sorry to state the obvious again and again, Sky/Ineos won by paying for a hugely powerful train - now we are back to the dark times, with Superhumans.

The ignorant still seem to point to Froome's spectacular Stage 19 win at the 2018 Giro as "superhuman" - but any sensible person who analysed that knows that the chase group was extremely handicapped, Pinot abandoned the next day with illness, Reichenbach couldn't descend ("like an old lady") and Carapaz and Lopez were battling each other and just hung on the back - Dumoulin was dumb not to take off on his own and try to catch Froome in a mano a mano time trial - I mean just the previous year, after virtually no season races he managed to win Gold in the Worlds, catching Froome on the climb no less, who was in peak form after his Vuelta win, and beating him by over a minute (oh that sounds familiar recently). (Roglic's dodgy silver medal went under the radar).
FFS, wake up or quit trolling. Train? Not much use when your main GT leaders are not 'normally' GT capable.
 
Jul 4, 2017
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Gosh. The access some users of this forum have.

So, yeah...

Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company owns 56% of the F1 team. The decision to withdraw was not wholly theirs. I would ask for the evidence supporting the claim that the withdrawal was because of doping but I know that would be a total waste of time when the forum's rules allow people to say any old shite.
What evidence do you want? Please do not doping as this is bad PR for us or if you are doping do not mention us in the team name?! It is clear that they will not state this publicly.

F1 is full of shady people, sponsors... But this is a multi-billion dollar business and propaganda is very important at this level so that they can control people’s opinions. The average person doesn’t know what Shell did in Nigeria, or Williams worked closely with the BAE Systems, or what the McLaren owner did with protesters in his country etc.. All that matters to the average person is that McLaren has raced in rainbow-colored livery in a few races, F1 have some ridiculous hashtag #weraceasone and silly anti-racist ceremony before the races. The average F1 fan is not really smart.

But when someone fails a doping test in cycling, the press is usually full of it. So this is bad PR if you are linked to this.

Btw, McLaren is completely controlled by Bahrain. The second largest shareholder is TAG with 14%, a Saudi guy Mansour Ojjeh who recently died. Now his son controls the shares. Bahrain and Ojjeh teamed up to fire Ron Dennis at McLaren in 2017 and was forced to sell his shares. The third largest shareholder with 10% is the Williams paydriver Latifi's dad. He will probably want to push his son to McLaren in the future.
 
What evidence do you want? Please do not doping as this is bad PR for us or if you are doping do not mention us in the team name?! It is clear that they will not state this publicly.

F1 is full of shady people, sponsors... But this is a multi-billion dollar business and propaganda is very important at this level so that they can control people’s opinions. The average person doesn’t know what Shell did in Nigeria, or Williams worked closely with the BAE Systems, or what the McLaren owner did with protesters in his country etc.. All that matters to the average person is that McLaren has raced in rainbow-colored livery in a few races, F1 have some ridiculous hashtag #weraceasone and silly anti-racist ceremony before the races. The average F1 fan is not really smart.

But when someone fails a doping test in cycling, the press is usually full of it. So this is bad PR if you are linked to this.

Btw, McLaren is completely controlled by Bahrain. The second largest shareholder is TAG with 14%, a Saudi guy Mansour Ojjeh who recently died. Now his son controls the shares. Bahrain and Ojjeh teamed up to fire Ron Dennis at McLaren in 2017 and was forced to sell his shares. The third largest shareholder with 10% is the Williams paydriver Latifi's dad. He will probably want to push his son to McLaren in the future.
so if F1 is full of shady people, why would that bother them ?? if a rider is failing a doping test for a race he did in 2020, we are going to read " former Bahrain-McLaren" team anyway.
 
so if F1 is full of shady people, why would that bother them ?? if a rider is failing a doping test for a race he did in 2020, we are going to read " former Bahrain-McLaren" team anyway.
Because they don't want to appear shady. Perception is everything. As for bicycle racing, everybody thinks they dope. For good reason too. Yet the other pro sports in the USA are looked at as clean which is ridiculous of course
 
This thread had me start a re-watch of giro 2020. (It was the first gt I watched since Rasmussen was thrown out of Rabobank 2007 and I believe I even found this forum digging for info on him). I have wondered all season what on earth happened to Geoghegan Hart as I assumed he would be extremely good and I've seen nothing of that sort. Hindley as well all gone.

It's ironic you stop watching cycling because of doping and when you return to watch races 13 years later it's again a similar situation. Now I expect it. And I like the figuring things out lol
 
I stand by it still being a good few years until we can contextualise that Giro.

You can contextualise it easily now. Due to Covid the calendar was changed and few big riders opted for the Giro. Of those big names that did turn up, Lopez, Thomas, Vlasov all crashed early. Yates, Haig and Kruijswijk left due to Covid. There was barely anyone left. An aging Nibali?

So to normal people it was a fairly low powered Giro in which what power there was left the race early.
To the Clinic though it is all drugs because you are incapable of processing a thought without reference to them

You'll find it's remarkable how many bleedingly obvious explanations there are for things if you consider that drugs might not be the explanation for everything.
 
Reactions: oldcrank and noob
You can contextualise it easily now. Due to Covid the calendar was changed and few big riders opted for the Giro. Of those big names that did turn up, Lopez, Thomas, Vlasov all crashed early. Yates, Haig and Kruijswijk left due to Covid. There was barely anyone left. An aging Nibali?

So to normal people it was a fairly low powered Giro in which what power there was left the race early.
To the Clinic though it is all drugs because you are incapable of processing a thought without reference to them

You'll find it's remarkable how many bleedingly obvious explanations there are for things if you consider that drugs might not be the explanation for everything.
Yeah, I mean that Giro was raced so slowly
 
You can contextualise it easily now. Due to Covid the calendar was changed and few big riders opted for the Giro. Of those big names that did turn up, Lopez, Thomas, Vlasov all crashed early. Yates, Haig and Kruijswijk left due to Covid. There was barely anyone left. An aging Nibali?

So to normal people it was a fairly low powered Giro in which what power there was left the race early.
To the Clinic though it is all drugs because you are incapable of processing a thought without reference to them

You'll find it's remarkable how many bleedingly obvious explanations there are for things if you consider that drugs might not be the explanation for everything.
To the bit in bold - this simply isn't true. Piancavallo, Stevio and Sestriere stages were all extremely fast. For the rest, that's precisely what I'm getting at - we still don't really know where in particular Tao & Hindley slot into the hierarchy, because despite them going very fast, as you mentioned it was a very unusual season and a lot of competition went missing. Sure, Almeida broke through, Kelderman did his usual sub-top GC guy role, but eg. Fuglsang was at 7 minutes despite coming into the new season (in August) absolutely flying. The usual CN-forum recency bias will of course write off Fuglsang and not remember how good he was in 2019/2020.

It's fair to say Tao & Hindley haven't had the shape at the right times this year to see where they currently stack up in a more 'normal' year. Maybe this is their level, but that doesn't reconcile their actual performances last year. Hence - context may still be a season or two away. That Giro is not even 12 months ago.
 
Reactions: Ripper
To the bit in bold - this simply isn't true. Piancavallo, Stevio and Sestriere stages were all extremely fast.
And here's another thing you all need to learn. Times up climbs are irrelevant. They are all dependent on how the race is run. And they were raced aggressively by strong teams. But not extremely fast.

As for Fuglsang. He got his best GT finish at the age of 35 which shows that it wasn't a star filled Giro. He's not a GT rider.
 
Reactions: Black Betsy
And here's another thing you all need to learn. Times up climbs are irrelevant. They are all dependent on how the race is run. And they were raced aggressively by strong teams. But not extremely fast.

As for Fuglsang. He got his best GT finish at the age of 35 which shows that it wasn't a star filled Giro. He's not a GT rider.
Of course times up climbs are relevant, don't be a complete twit about it. That's just lazy trolling. I think most posters know context is important.

Lol :rolleyes:
 
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