Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[solo80k]

Looks like a new treatment is available on the market since day by day improvement is possible during the race.

Ineos were caught off guard during the Tour but now their domestics are winning almost everything during this Giro. The long term planning doesn't apply to what happened after the Tour. You can prepare the team in less than a month now. I understand that the leader is under special treatment but now even the likes of Navarez or Puccio are able to get a GT stage podium places simultaneously.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Looks like a new treatment is available on the market since day by day improvement is possible during the race.

Ineos were caught off guard during the Tour but now their domestics are winning almost everything during this Giro. The long term planning doesn't apply to what happened after the Tour. You can prepare the team in less than a month now. I understand that the leader is under special treatment but now even the likes of Navarez or Puccio are able to get a GT stage podium places simultaneously.

Ben Swift getting 18th is pretty eye opening.

 

[Cookster15]

Ben Swift getting 18th is pretty eye opening.

Good catch. Swift is no young gun either - he's 32. Swift's best GC finish in a Grand Tour previous to this Giro is 83rd at the 2017 Tour.

 

[macbindle]

Full name is "Jai who was actually a talented world class junior and U23 unlike a certain Kenyan Hindley" thank you very much.

He has the same middle name as Tao Geogaagoogoo Hart then.

Agree with comments above about Froome....but Froome is yesterday's news

 

[Climbing]

WHAT?
look, there's noone, at least here in Italy, happier than me about Tao and Ineos winning. but your take on Sunweb is totally nuts. they rode an amazing race and they deserve the podium.

But Skyneos are fine to keep pumping out the GT wins huh...

Nothing is fine in this sport, not in the last 30 years, apart maybe a couple odd years around 2008 or 2010.
This year though, looked particularly strange, but Ineos did catch up very quickly.

 

[42x16ss]

Nothing is fine in this sport, not in the last 30 years, apart maybe a couple odd years around 2008 or 2010.
This year though, looked particularly strange, but Ineos did catch up very quickly.

TBF we don't know how Bernal would have held up had he not crashed before the Tour, or Carapaz's Giro defence if Thomas had bothered to train correctly.

 

[Red Rick]

TBF we don't know how Bernal would have held up had he not crashed before the Tour, or Carapaz's Giro defence if Thomas had bothered to train correctly.

Yeah Ineos being bad in the Tour was all about that bad training

 

[Sootyam]

Ben Swift getting 18th is pretty eye opening.

This was purely a product of getting in the right breaks, some of which were allowed ridiculous amounts of time. Once you get outside the top 10 (especially with such a weak field) on a GT, the positions are much more random than you might think. Occasionally someone even sneaks into the top ten by just being in the right breakaways.

 

[pastronef]

this Giro comeback win after the Tour debacle, with Tao, a British kid riding with the team at the launch at The Mall ten years ago, all during the Freeman trial is priceless for Skineos. it´s a strike back, BANG! take this.
and I like that very much

 

[42x16ss]

Yeah Ineos being bad in the Tour was all about that bad training

I didn't say that. I said Thomas was lazy during lockdown and Carapaz had his race schedule compromised as a result.

 

[SHAD0W93]

This was purely a product of getting in the right breaks, some of which were allowed ridiculous amounts of time. Once you get outside the top 10 (especially with such a weak field) on a GT, the positions are much more random than you might think. Occasionally someone even sneaks into the top ten by just being in the right breakaways.

This isn't a breakaway specialist who can hang on for a top 20 that climbs okay (Chavanel, Voeckler) , a super strong domestique that still hangs on to that top 20 (G. Thomas pre win) , or a fringe 10-25 GC rider that makes a breakthrough top 10 (Navarro, LuLu, Karpets, Monfort). This is a semi hardy C sprinter that has none of those qualities, that finished 18th. Thor Hushovd, the God of Thunder, was not only a better climber and engine than Swift but won 2 stages from a break, team won the TTT, and lead GC finished 68th. A sprinter who finished second best on his team and the riders in 19-22 are way better GC riders. Now at 32 he is 18th, next year what, 10th or higher?

 

[Parker]

This isn't a breakaway specialist who can hang on for a top 20 that climbs okay (Chavanel, Voeckler) , a super strong domestique that still hangs on to that top 20 (G. Thomas pre win) , or a fringe 10-25 GC rider that makes a breakthrough top 10 (Navarro, LuLu, Karpets, Monfort). This is a semi hardy C sprinter that has none of those qualities, that finished 18th. Thor Hushovd, the God of Thunder, was not only a better climber and engine than Swift but won 2 stages from a break, team won the TTT, and lead GC finished 68th. A sprinter who finished second best on his team and the riders in 19-22 are way better GC riders. Now at 32 he is 18th, next year what, 10th or higher?

He hasn't really been a full time sprinter for a long while. He did come second on Alpe d'Huez in the Dauphine three years ago though so he can obviously climb a bit when he needs to. And that was from a 16 strong break which included Herrada, Vuillermoz, Vanendert, Ulissi, Sicard, Clarke and Kennaugh who won

 

[SHAD0W93]

He hasn't really been a full time sprinter for a long while. He did come second on Alpe d'Huez in the Dauphine three years ago though so he can obviously climb a bit when he needs to. And that was from a 16 strong break which included Herrada, Vuillermoz, Vanendert, Ulissi, Sicard, Clarke and Kennaugh who won

He's still been competing in sprints since 2017, he's just a C or maybe even D sprinter. Yes he finished second on probably his best day but hasn't really shown anything close to that or being able to come close over 3 weeks.

 

[Sootyam]

He's still been competing in sprints since 2017, he's just a C or maybe even D sprinter. Yes he finished second on probably his best day but hasn't really shown anything close to that or being able to come close over 3 weeks.

Looking back over his stage results, you're right actually. He was finishing top 30 on most of the high summit finishes. Guess this takes us back to the age-old question of whether someone can change what type of rider they are and be decent at it. (For those of you about to try and answer this, I'll save you the effort: some people say no, some people say yes, you'll argue about it for a bit, and no conclusions will be reached other than us all getting a little bit more annoyed)

 

[Cookster15]

Time for a bump .......

The Clinic really has fallen away from its glory days. This thread should be white hot with the news on Freeman. Instead the only thing being discussed is MVdP.

 

[MartinGT]

We will never know the full truth on Sky back in the day.

 

[ebandit]

we will never know the full truth about any team......for now it should be enough to tick
a number of boxes

doping ....yes/no
doping beyond that covered by TUES....yes/no
epo......yes/no
transfusions....yes/no
wonder drug previously not known being used...yes/no

Mark L

 

[fmk_RoI]

This thread should be white hot with the news on Freeman. Instead the only thing being discussed is MVdP.

Freeman is part of the CMS thread.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Time for a bump .......

The Clinic really has fallen away from its glory days. This thread should be white hot with the news on Freeman. Instead the only thing being discussed is MVdP.

I have the same problem. To me Team Sky 2011-2018 looks like the biggest doping ring since US Postal, but there isn't really a thread to discuss this anymore. In spite of all the evidence WADA and UCI aren't even investigating this team. No one seems to care anymore.

 

[MartinGT]

I have the same problem. To me Team Sky 2011-2018 looks like the biggest doping ring since US Postal, but there isn't really a thread to discuss this anymore. In spite of all the evidence WADA and UCI aren't even investigating this team. No one seems to care anymore.

Why would they shoot themselves in the foot? You don't see FIFA doing that.

 

[Cookster15]

Freeman is part of the CMS thread.

Yes but the only reason we read about him is his time at Sky. It makes more sense to keep discussion of Freeman in there. Anyhow I'll read through the CMS thread now I know. Thanks.

 

[Publiuszam]

Good read. Has anyone read the whole book?

https://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

The fate of British Cycling changed one day in 2003.

The organization, which was the governing body for professional cycling in Great Britain, had recently hired Dave Brailsford as its new performance director. At the time, professional cyclists in Great Britain had endured nearly one hundred years of mediocrity. Since 1908, British riders had won just a single gold medal at the Olympic Games, and they had fared even worse in cycling’s biggest race, the Tour de France. In 110 years, no British cyclist had ever won the event...

Edited by King Boonen: Please don't quote other webpages verbatim. A small section and the link is enough.

 

[Publiuszam]

Sorry..king boonen

 

[King Boonen]

Sorry..king boonen

No worries, happens a lot. I don't know if there's a copyright issue we'd have to take into account but it's fairer to give the original site the views and doesn't take up as much space for people browsing on mobiles.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Good read. Has anyone read the whole book?

Christ but that moron almost makes Matthew Syed look like a sceptic.

Where are the one percent improvements in my life? Not reading shite books like that, that's where.