Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[masking_agent]

While I don’t deny that Bernal is a very talented cyclist, I just can’t take anyone from Ineos seriously, not with so many suspicious (sometimes very obviously dirty) performances since they burst on to the scene a decade ago. I don’t find them any less suspicious or downright dirty like any of the strong teams of yesteryear like US Postal, Telekom, Festina, Kelme, Once, Fassa Bortolo, Rabobank, etc.

You are correct and should be suspicious. The Ineos train drilling it climbs at like 6.9 - 7.1 w/kg demonstrates that there is still systematic team doping in our sport. It will always be if you want to win , simple. Its just the drugs and the doses have been more cared for by more educated team doctors nowadays. Also , there is no one reporter like David Walsh reporting on the "not normal" rides anymore, so everything gets washed away.

I believe the only way we will see any rider caught in a big doping scandal is if they become super sloppy in their dosages and regiment while at the same time, a UCI tester is super pissed off and has a vendetta against a group of riders that he or she wants to make an example out of.

 

[wirral]

I believe the only way we will see any rider caught in a big doping scandal is if they become super sloppy in their dosages and regiment while at the same time, a UCI tester is super pissed off and has a vendetta against a group of riders that he or she wants to make an example out of.

Or the other way is if [criminal] law enforcement somehow becomes involved.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Powered by cake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1400489181315485702

View: https://twitter.com/kwiato/status/1400489181315485702

 

[Nick2413]

You are correct and should be suspicious. The Ineos train drilling it climbs at like 6.9 - 7.1 w/kg demonstrates that there is still systematic team doping in our sport. It will always be if you want to win , simple. Its just the drugs and the doses have been more cared for by more educated team doctors nowadays. Also , there is no one reporter like David Walsh reporting on the "not normal" rides anymore, so everything gets washed away.

I believe the only way we will see any rider caught in a big doping scandal is if they become super sloppy in their dosages and regiment while at the same time, a UCI tester is super pissed off and has a vendetta against a group of riders that he or she wants to make an example out of.

I still don’t understand how the tests get passed though. If riders get tested immediately upon winning a stage or GT then how aren’t their values overboard or at least off from the passport? Even a quick IV in the team bus would be hard to fix the numbers to the right spot. Are the tests being handled corruptly in some way? Or is this really just micro dosing? Look at PDBF last year, shouldn’t that be an immediate pop?

 

[Bolder]

Or the other way is if [criminal] law enforcement somehow becomes involved.

I think this is the key. Even if it doesn't go anywhere, like Arkea last year, it puts riders on notice. There are just too many ways to game the testing.

 

[Bolder]

I still don’t understand how the tests get passed though. If riders get tested immediately upon winning a stage or GT then how aren’t their values overboard or at least off from the passport? Even a quick IV in the team bus would be hard to fix the numbers to the right spot. Are the tests being handled corruptly in some way? Or is this really just micro dosing? Look at PDBF last year, shouldn’t that be an immediate pop?

Micro dosing, masking agents, new techniques. I don't think the testing is systematically corrupt, per se, but more like insufficient and not screening for the latest drugs.

 

[Ripper]

Carapaz simply flying today

 

[MartinGT]

Carapaz simply flying today

That was a right laugh. Engaged a right motor there.

 

[FroomeWagon]

What's going on with Ineos? Did management at Ineos tell the DS's to tone it down? Dave B not have the same sources for his "vitamins" as in previous years? Did the jiffy bag fiasco take its toll?

 

[Luthor]

What's going on with Ineos? Did management at Ineos tell the DS's to tone it down? Dave B not have the same sources for his "vitamins" as in previous years? Did the jiffy bag fiasco take its toll?

They are still decently strong but they can't compete with the Middle East powers. Dave probably knows what is happening right now but probably don't wanna risk it.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

What's going on with Ineos? Did management at Ineos tell the DS's to tone it down? Dave B not have the same sources for his "vitamins" as in previous years? Did the jiffy bag fiasco take its toll?

Ineos forgot to recruit Pog. That's their mistake.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Brailsford reveals health issues could spell the end of his Ineos Grenadiers reign

'If the moment comes when you're trying to support yourself more than others, then it’s time to get out'

www.cyclingnews.com

I guess this finally confirms it; Ineos doesn't have the best doctors anymore


(Joking aside, I obviously feel sorry for Brailsford and anyone else who's diagnosed with cancer and/or has to deal with other possibly major health issues)

 

[ppanther92]

They pretty much lost any gap they had in GTs, haven't they?

Its not even that much about the top end. If you face two out of the world Slovenians, not much you can do, I guess. But their teams just look so much worse than they did in the domination years when they usually had multiple riders that could do what e.g. Kuss is doing right now. Think of G, Porte, Rogers, Kwia, ...

 

[roundabout]

Rogers and Kwiatkowski could never do what Kuss did today.

Ok, maybe other than the Foix stage in 2017 for Kwiatkowski, but that's about it.

 

[ppanther92]

Rogers and Kwiatkowski could never do what Kuss did today.

Ok, maybe other than the Foix stage in 2017 for Kwiatkowski, but that's about it.

Ok, lets not focus on Kuss than. But you could be sure that of an elite 10-15 group of climbers 5-6 were from Ineos in any GT between 2012 and 2019. When was that the case in the last 2 years? Never.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Froome, Thomas, Richie Port, Nieve, Poels, Bernal, Henao, Castrovejo, kwiatkovoski, Landa, Konig,

 

[roundabout]

Ok, lets not focus on Kuss than. But you could be sure that of an elite 10-15 group of climbers 5-6 were from Ineos in any GT between 2012 and 2019. When was that the case in the last 2 years? Never.

Yeah. Maybe not 5-6, but I get your point.

Adam Yates specifically going to the Vuelta from the start of the season and looking relatively worse than in the spring races tells a lot too

Edit: unless Yates is told to have one eye on Bernal

 

[gillan1969]

what's funny is that in Carapaz and Bernal they have genuine GT talent but they pale into the background compared to the dominant performances of Wiggins the trackie's 2012 and ex-domestique 'Froome the useless' (his viking name)

 

[SafeBet]

Speaking of Ineos, where is Laurens De Plus? Something went wrong with his program?

 

[samhocking]

to me somewhere ineos are getting their tactics/preparation wrong......carapaz/bernal can

turn up as worldbeaters....at level better than old wiggo but so often falling far short with a team

that completely lacks cohesion

Mark L

I don't think Ineos have targeted La Vuelta beyond Yates arriving in form. The team is performing at a much deeper level throughout the season now than they ever did in Wiggins days of all or nothing in Le Tour. Look at their ranking at the moment, over 2000 points ahead of Jumbo, 3000 ahead of UAE and even beating DQS to the top of the table.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think Ineos have targeted La Vuelta beyond Yates arriving in form. The team is performing at a much deeper level throughout the season now than they ever did in Wiggins days of all or nothing in Le Tour. Look at their ranking at the moment, over 2000 points ahead of Jumbo, 3000 ahead of UAE and even beating DQS to the top of the table.

You don't remember 2012 very well, do you.

Check out the pre-Tour results.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't think Ineos have targeted La Vuelta beyond Yates arriving in form. The team is performing at a much deeper level throughout the season now than they ever did in Wiggins days of all or nothing in Le Tour. Look at their ranking at the moment, over 2000 points ahead of Jumbo, 3000 ahead of UAE and even beating DQS to the top of the table.

Haven't we been complaining that you get too much points for GC placings compared to wins? Not to mention A LOT more points are given out for the races compared to before for UCI races. Also there are more races in the UCI World Tour. = more points to be gained then before.

#	Prev.	Diff.	Team	Class	Wins	2nd	3rd
1	1	-	Deceuninck - Quick Step	WT	51	40	26
2	9	▲7	INEOS Grenadiers	WT	31	17	21

DQS is destroying them in podium placings. this year.

Then it is not like they have underperformed in years past. They are almost always top 5. They even had more PCS points in 2012 compared to this year. I am sure they also have more UCI points in 2012 compared to 2021 if they are given the same point value.
pcs

#	Prev.	Diff.	Team	Class	Points
1	1	-	Deceuninck - Quick Step	WT	9980
2	4	▲2	INEOS Grenadiers	WT	9719
3	2	▼1	Team Jumbo-Visma	WT	9207
4	6	▲2	UAE-Team Emirates	WT	8015
5	11	▲6	Bahrain - Victorious	WT	7214

UCI

1	INEOS GRENADIERS (IGD)	GBR	11440
2	DECEUNINCK - QUICK-STEP (DQT)	BEL	10184.8
3	JUMBO-VISMA (TJV)	NED	8845
4	UAE TEAM EMIRATES (UAD)	UAE	8722.66
5	BAHRAIN VICTORIOUS (TBV)	BRN	7014

2020 PCS

#	Prev.	Diff.	Team	Class	Points
1	1	-	Deceuninck - Quick Step	WT	7243
2	2	-	Team Jumbo-Visma	WT	6170
3	6	▲3	UAE-Team Emirates	WT	6167
4	15	▲11	Team Sunweb	WT	5460
5	4	▼1	INEOS Grenadiers	WT	5403

2020 UCI

1 +1	JUMBO - VISMA (TJV)	NED	9919
2 -1	DECEUNINCK - QUICK - STEP (DQT)	BEL	9776.16
3	UAE TEAM EMIRATES (UAD)	UAE	8503
4 +1	INEOS GRENADIERS (IGD)	GBR	7628.33
5 -1	TEAM SUNWEB (SUN)	GER	7582.71

2019 PCS

#	Prev.	Diff.	Team	Class	Points
1	1	-	Deceuninck - Quick Step	WT	9199
2	9	▲7	Team Jumbo-Visma	WT	8226
3	3	-	BORA - hansgrohe	WT	8097
4	2	▼2	Team INEOS	WT	7749
5	4	▼1	Astana Pro Team	WT	7557

2019 UCI

1	DECEUNINCK - QUICK - STEP (DQT)	BEL	14835.15
2	BORA - HANSGROHE (BOH)	GER	14192.86
3	TEAM JUMBO - VISMA (TJV)	NED	13128.07
4	UAE TEAM EMIRATES (UAD)	UAE	11765.33
5	ASTANA PRO TEAM (AST)	KAZ	11474.5
6	TEAM INEOS (INS)	GBR	10547.08

2013 PCS

#	Prev.	Diff.	Team	Class	Points
1	1	-	Sky Procycling	WT	7767
2	5	▲3	Movistar Team	WT	7726
3	2	▼1	Omega Pharma - Quick-Step	WT	7202
4	3	▼1	Team Katusha	WT	7076
5	10	▲5	Belkin-Pro Cycling Team	WT	6105

2013 UCI

Rank	Team	Points	Top 5 riders	WTTT
1​	Movistar Team	1610​	Valverde (540), Quintana (366), Costa (352), Intxausti (196), J. Moreno (86)	70
2​	Team Sky	1561​	Froome (587), Porte (327), Henao (227), Urán (163), Thomas (117)	140
3​	Team Katusha	1340​	Rodríguez (607), D. Moreno (295), Špilak (199), Kristoff (161), Paolini (78)	0
4​	RadioShack–Leopard	1056​	Cancellara (384), Horner (257), Bakelants (127), Nizzolo (85), Gallopin (83)	120
5​	Astana	1045​	Nibali (474), Fuglsang (160), Kangert (116), Gasparotto (115), Hryvko (70)	110

2012 PCS

#	Prev.	Diff.	Team	Class	Points
1	2	▲1	Sky Procycling	WT	10027
2	17	▲15	Omega Pharma - Quick-Step	WT	7824
3	12	▲9	Team Katusha	WT	7026
4	8	▲4	Liquigas - Cannondale	WT	6465
5	13	▲8	Movistar Team	WT	6457

2012 UCI

Rank	Team	Points	Top 5 riders	WTTT
1​	Team Sky	1767​	Wiggins (601), Froome (376), Boasson Hagen (317), Urán (199), Rogers (194)	80
2​	Team Katusha	1273​	Rodríguez (692), Freire (181), Kolobnev (110), D. Moreno (104), Špilak (86)	100
3​	Liquigas–Cannondale	1197​	Nibali (400), P. Sagan (351), Moser (175), Basso (88), Capecchi (53)	130
4​	Omega Pharma–Quick-Step	1162​	Boonen (410), T. Martin (171), Terpstra (160), Chavanel (113), Kwiatkowski (108)	200
5​	Movistar Team	952​	Valverde (394), Costa (320), Intxausti (47), Kiryienka (41), Castroviejo (40)	110

 

[samhocking]

And now deduct Wiggins points hahaha!

The point was, they are highest ranking of the top 3 GC teams 'this year', nothing more.

 

[SHAD0W93]

And now deduct Wiggins points hahaha!

The point was, they are highest ranking of the top 3 GC teams 'this year', nothing more.

Why? He was their leader, they would have just rode for a different rider. Might as well deduct Carapaz's points. They are always top 3 of the GC teams, nothing is new. This Vuelta so far they are not as crisp as before but still in contention technically within 3 minutes. A lot can still happen.

 

[samhocking]

Why? He was their leader, they would have just rode for a different rider. Might as well deduct Carapaz's points. They are always top 3 of the GC teams, nothing is new. This Vuelta so far they are not as crisp as before but still in contention technically within 3 minutes. A lot can still happen.

Because my point clearly defined 'depth' in the points this year as that was the context.

1 CARAPAZ Richard(1730)4
2 BERNAL Egan(1261)12
3 THOMAS Geraint(928)26
4 YATES Adam(848)33
5 PORTE Richie(802)39
6 HAYTER Ethan(742)44
7 GANNA Filippo(705)49
8 KWIATKOWSKI Michał(664)57
9 VAN BAARLE Dylan(620)61
10 PIDCOCK Thomas(541)