Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[noob]

Maybe, seems a lot of detail is locked up in legal protection. and not sure what the timescale of stuff like that.
The far more interesting side to the Sky years is probably what made Wiggins what he was imo. Good podcast with him at Herne Hill the other day.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRKiRF_BcgA

I'm watching this. God that man is so intense! He's clearly stressed out, hypervigilant, nervous and hyperactive. All at once. And reflective on top of it. I feel overwhelmed from watching it. But he's very very interesting!

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

It's not worthy to be told yet again by them. It's gonna be 4 weeks of Nick's nothing burgers telling us all about everything we already know about Bobby Jullich, Michael Rogers, Michael Barry & Gert Leinders. Tyler Hamilton will act as the supposed witness to the claims that were only allegations and Nick will pull out the 'winning clean in 5 years' as evidence they didn't win clean simply by association. Nick's strapline sets all this out already so we know the story he's' about to tell already.

In the summer of 2012, Team Sky reiterated that they were the cleanest cycling team in the world, with no employees who had any doping history. That was far from true.​

Yeah that was also the vibe I got from the opening part of the series. If he had any groundbreaking revelations he'd publish them explicitly and not waste time telling stories about Bobby freaking Julich.

 

[noob]

Wiggins saying he played a character; did anyone ever actually believe he was like that for real?! Are people that easily fooled? Then no wonder they believe things like "Roglič is always happy". Or "Pog just loves riding his bike ". Ignoring how Rog drinks and how Pog so obviously enjoy humiliating "his" boys.

 

[E_F_]

Three substack posts with info on British cycling during the Sky area, that you probably already know... Last one from our friend Nick!

The Timeline: Team Sky and British Cycling – when success surpassed ethics

When retrospecitvely reviewing the events that unfolded in British cycling after the creation of Team Sky, it reads as a catalogue of doping-related scandals.

honestsport.substack.com

Six British cyclists were investigated for banned testosterone use

The cyclists, licensed by British Cycling, were found to have elevated testosterone levels in the years before the British Cycling doctor ordered the same drug to the Manchester Velodrome.

honestsport.substack.com

Exclusive: Sir Bradley Wiggins took ketones in Tour de France-winning year

Leaked presentation shows that Wiggins took the controversial, yet legal, substance before London 2012 and a Team Sky insider has provided a bottle of ketones from a batch taken by British riders.

honestsport.substack.com

 

[ppanther92]

Crash Pogacar into a bus at 50mph and break Vingo's femur into 3 pieces a year or two later and both teams would be the same level for the next 5-10 years.l

Froome already was on a decline and his peak shape was below lets say a Derek Gee right now. So even then, they would have had to find another gear. Bernal is on his 2019 level but thats not enough. And also he was on the decline in 2020 and 2021 relatively (meaning result wise).

So I would only let this count partly.

 

[Rob5091]

Things looking bleak at Ineos ...
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/racin...uch-of-ineos-grenadiers-at-the-tour-de-france

Ultimately, it’s time to stop expecting Ineos to be world-beaters any time soon. The pressure is there because of who they were, and because they’re the only British squad on the WorldTour, but things will not change quickly.

 

[MartinGT]

Seeing Wiggins now I feel a little sad. He looks a mess on his recent trip to see LA. Like he's battling several demons.

But all this talk from him 'I'll have my say' 'I'll be rich' GTFO of course you will.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Froome already was on a decline and his peak shape was below lets say a Derek Gee right now. So even then, they would have had to find another gear. Bernal is on his 2019 level but thats not enough. And also he was on the decline in 2020 and 2021 relatively (meaning result wise).

So I would only let this count partly.

I mean, the altitude natives don't really seem to benefit that much from the new rocket fuel.

Letting Carapaz go after he got them 3 gt podiums in 3 years and also Adam Yates, who did the highest w/kg on that team during those 2 years and got really good results, besides that 2022 Tour that was messed up by that TdS dnf, were cleary mistakes.

 

[MartinGT]

Latest one is out. Basically Sutton is a ex doping nutter liar. Which we knew.

 

[ppanther92]

I mean, the altitude natives don't really seem to benefit that much from the new rocket fuel.

That sounds logical if its really about Carbon Monoxide or similar blood vector manipulation methods. Blood doping and EPO arguably also gave the Colombians a hard time.

In any way its a crazy stat that Bernal reached his 2019 level again but is like a top 30 rider at the Tour.

 

[DJO]

Skyfall #2: Injections at Windermere, drugs in the fridge, and lies about coming clean

By the time Team Sky won the 2012 Tour de France and Team GB won most cycling medals at London 2012, British cycling was being run by men with doping secrets

substack.com

 

[red_flanders]

So far Skyfall has a low signal to noise ratio. Nothing new in the first two posts. Positive tests swept under the rug to be asserted on Monday apparently. Hope the author has a more solid case than what's been laid out so far.

Sure, there were a bunch of riders and coaches who were dopers. Cycling fans probably understand that pretty well already. To convince anyone who doesn't already see the obvious doping is gonna take a lot more hard evidence.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That sounds logical if its really about Carbon Monoxide or similar blood vector manipulation methods. Blood doping and EPO arguably also gave the Colombians a hard time.

In any way its a crazy stat that Bernal reached his 2019 level again but is like a top 30 rider at the Tour.

Yeah, the way most altitude natives are suddenly no longer competitive makes me think it's oxygen vector manipulation.

 

[noob]

"He insisted that every member of staff - riders, coaches, mechanics, everyone - should be interviewed, and asked to state they had zero experience or knowledge of doping in their careers."

Out of everything I've read this far about Sky this to me is the most offensive! To force people to shut up is one thing, to ask them to lie if confronted is another, but to force them to make a statement where they lie or lose their job...

That is so dark on so many levels. Brailsford now on my dark triad list.

 

[awavey]

"He insisted that every member of staff - riders, coaches, mechanics, everyone - should be interviewed, and asked to state they had zero experience or knowledge of doping in their careers."

Out of everything I've read this far about Sky this to me is the most offensive! To force people to shut up is one thing, to ask them to lie if confronted is another, but to force them to make a statement where they lie or lose their job...

That is so dark on so many levels. Brailsford now on my dark triad list.

how so ? I mean its better than dont ask these questions and you wont hear no lies as an approach to setting up a team.

whether Brailsford was naive enough to believe everyone answered those questions truthfully and honestly is another matter, but they had to draw the famous Sky line somewhere as a starting point

 

[topcat]

"He insisted that every member of staff - riders, coaches, mechanics, everyone - should be interviewed, and asked to state they had zero experience or knowledge of doping in their careers."

Out of everything I've read this far about Sky this to me is the most offensive! To force people to shut up is one thing, to ask them to lie if confronted is another, but to force them to make a statement where they lie or lose their job...

That is so dark on so many levels. Brailsford now on my dark triad list.

Normally you lose your job if you lie but they had to lie to keep their jobs. Cruel irony is a fickle mistress.

 

[Saint Unix]

"He insisted that every member of staff - riders, coaches, mechanics, everyone - should be interviewed, and asked to state they had zero experience or knowledge of doping in their careers."

Out of everything I've read this far about Sky this to me is the most offensive! To force people to shut up is one thing, to ask them to lie if confronted is another, but to force them to make a statement where they lie or lose their job...

That is so dark on so many levels. Brailsford now on my dark triad list.

Team Sky were basically regurgitating Nazi propaganda techniques for the duration of their existence.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”

Nah, turns out we didn't, actually. But you do have to admire the boldness and complete lack of shame it takes to feed the public such obvious, brazen, self-righteous bullsh*t with a completely straight face. If peddling nonsense was a sport, they would have been the runaway winners at that off of pure natural talent alone.

 

[awavey]

Yeah that was also the vibe I got from the opening part of the series. If he had any groundbreaking revelations he'd publish them explicitly and not waste time telling stories about Bobby freaking Julich.

dont forget he's got Sean Yates and Tiernan Locke to go through too, and David Millar whose sister worked for Team Sky!!!!!

I mean the "Six british cyclists" part sums it up for me. Its written so you believe to be licensed by British cycling means you are special and maybe even part of the TeamGB/Sky squad in Manchester, as frankly back then they were near indivisible as organisations .

as opposed to some club cyclist from some obscure part of the UK, who had just paid £20 or whatever it was back then to BC, so they could race in their local crit, as simply being BC licensed to race, puts you under the provision of the UKAD system, and subject to random testing.

so it could be a bunch of club riders for all we know.

 

[red_flanders]

Team Sky were basically regurgitating Nazi propaganda techniques for the duration of their existence.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”

Nah, turns out we didn't, actually. But you do have to admire the boldness and complete lack of shame it takes to feed the public such obvious, brazen, self-righteous bullsh*t with a completely straight face. If peddling nonsense was a sport, they would have been the runaway winners at that off of pure natural talent alone.

 

[noob]

how so ? I mean its better than dont ask these questions and you wont hear no lies as an approach to setting up a team.

whether Brailsford was naive enough to believe everyone answered those questions truthfully and honestly is another matter, but they had to draw the famous Sky line somewhere as a starting point

As long as Brailsford wasn't first level innocently autistic with zero theory of mind he had zero reason to believe they had a completely clean history.

Using all your staff to feed the public a lie is making them collateral damage. Forcing them to do it or lose their job. It's Gordon Gecko level of dark.

A tree is known by its fruit, as a wise man once said.

 

[samhocking]

Team Sky were basically regurgitating Nazi propaganda techniques for the duration of their existence.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”

Nah, turns out we didn't, actually. But you do have to admire the boldness and complete lack of shame it takes to feed the public such obvious, brazen, self-righteous bullsh*t with a completely straight face. If peddling nonsense was a sport, they would have been the runaway winners at that off of pure natural talent alone.

To be fair their only claim was they would win the tour with a British rider within 5 years and win it clean. With hindsight if they simply said win it without breaking WADA code nobody would be able to claim anything otherwise imo on Froome or Wiggins. But it's also important to think in the mindset of elite sport where 'clean' means not breaking WADA code because doping is only a legal matter because if it isn't you are not maximising your right to play within the rules at the time and so reducing chances to win.

 

[noob]

To be fair their only claim was they would win the tour with a British rider within 5 years and win it clean. With hindsight if they simply said win it without breaking WADA code nobody would be able to claim anything otherwise imo on Froome or Wiggins. But it's also important to think in the mindset of elite sport where 'clean' means not breaking WADA code because doping is only a legal matter because if it isn't you are not maximising your right to play within the rules at the time.

So the journalist is lying? "to state they had zero experience or knowledge of doping in their careers."

 

[E_F_]

Those *** interviews never happened. Why would a dopester have such interviews? Surely he hired them for their doping expertise?

 

[noob]

Also to be clear I don't believe in free will, so there's no hate from me. I just find the moral of it very very dark and I'd run far away. And I'd be thankful he showed his true colours so fast so I could get out.

 

[samhocking]

So the journalist is lying? "to state they had zero experience or knowledge of doping in their careers."

He's discussing staff when he says 'employees' not riders. Clearly no riders winning Le Tour have been proven to have been doped by any staff member.
Harris is simply finding stories about staff and riders from their time before Sky.