Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[bobbins]

It seems that the allegations are pretty specific, and that there's more than one witness to them.

His defence is that despite the needles, it was horseplay?

I think Brailsford will be a complete laughing stock if that's wheeled out - true or not.

Seriously, I think he'll get torn to pieces.

Fair enough.

Any word on Brian Smith when he was amateur / pro?

 

[Benotti69]

Yates has a positive and history at USPS, Sutton hasn't any of that, would be nice to know what we are condemning him for.

I've been around the uk scene for years and by all accounts he's a not dirty.

Plenty out there had no positives. Hincapie, Voight, Horner are some of the oldest riders in the peloton in 2012.

 

[Don Quixote]

Fair enough.

Any word on Brian Smith when he was amateur / pro?

Nope, but he was voicing his staunch anti-doping stance in the press recently.

If he has a past, people have to come forward.

 

[ferryman]

Fair enough.

Any word on Brian Smith when he was amateur / pro?

No doping culture in Scotland

 

[Telmisartan new]

Brian Smith is a friend of Wonderboy from Motorola.Didn't read LA Confidential as he had "no inclination" to do so.Draw your own conclusions....

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Brian Smith is a friend of Wonderboy from Motorola.Didn't read LA Confidential as he had "no inclination" to do so.Draw your own conclusions....

Compared it to a comic as i recall.

Suddenly however, he is now very upset that he wasn't allowed to ride the TDF because he wouldn't dope...

Re-arrange these words: Sinking Rat Leaving Ship

 

[Froomador]

Fair enough.

Any word on Brian Smith when he was amateur / pro?

Brian was a clean rider - he was aware of Lance's practices whilst at Motorola and saw with his own eyes what went on at Lance's place in Nice. Privately, Brian would talk against LA and what he got up to in the strongest terms.

Brian is a whinging Scot but he's no doper.

 

[Telmisartan new]

Brian was a clean rider - he was aware of Lance's practices whilst at Motorola and saw with his own eyes what went on at Lance's place in Nice. Privately, Brian would talk against LA and what he got up to in the strongest terms.

Brian is a whinging Scot but he's no doper.

I have heard from another source that Smith was clean although it doesn't fill me with confidence when he refers in awestruck terms to conversations with the sociopath but then again he certainly wouldn't be the first person to keep his real views hidden through fear/self preservation.

 

[Tinman]

Yates has a positive and history at USPS, Sutton hasn't any of that, would be nice to know what we are condemning him for.

I've been around the uk scene for years and by all accounts he's a not dirty.

And Darryl comes out here, gives an eye witness account and says he is willing to back this up with the relevant authorities. And there are others who presumably can corroborate his story. Please.

 

[Tinman]

Brian was a clean rider - he was aware of Lance's practices whilst at Motorola and saw with his own eyes what went on at Lance's place in Nice. Privately, Brian would talk against LA and what he got up to in the strongest terms.

Brian is a whinging Scot but he's no doper.

This has been posted in several threads before. Brian links his discussion with Lance on PEDs in 1994 with being asked to leave Motorola.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...rian-Smith-told-cyclist-hed-drugs-sacked.html

 

[Tinman]

When someone lies to you so many times you then become completely indifferent to what they have to say,there's an automatic assumption they are lying again,its understandable but on this occasion (this is the 3rd/4th time i have said this in recent days),Brailsford is not at it,everyone has to look carefully at what is happening here,there WILL be a purge and it'll happen soon.I dont blame people for thinking its another transparent PR exercise taking us long suffering fans for mugs but not this time,Sky have made a decision to feed the hungry wolves lest Wiggins himself gets anymore attention,losing Rogers/Yates wont hurt Sky and DB knows this.If this doesnt happen,DB/Sky's reputation will be in tatters and they'll be wide open for future scandals which could finish the team.He may be alot of things Mr Brailsford but stupid isn't one of them.

I am sure you are right on most above. But if Brainsford is really as smart as you say he is, having chosen this path must have had other reasons. Maybe he has his own skeletons in the closet that are at risk being exposed, and his current approach mitigates that risk more? It certainly puts the emphasis on the team riders and staff, and keeps his own doping complicity (if there were to be any) relatively exposure free.

 

[onimod]

I can see the short term problem with what he is doing but in the longer term things become clearer and the message is simple - "if you want a job in British cycling then you will never ever dope or be involved in any way".
If they can survive the immediate problems then the future looks better and it's the right message to be sending.
I think most of us would like to see a no tolerance future. Maybe DB just has no time for the transition and given the rate at which events have transpired he may be correct in thinking that the transition could be shorter than we all think might have been the case a few weeks ago.
I think if a wealthy businessman (Murdoch) had the desire he could set up an alternative to the UCI model in weeks. In terms of the "buy low , sell high" mantra we're probably at about the right point. The UCI might make the proposition even sweeter on Monday- who knows.
This is probably not the right thread to raise it but I still can't believe the riders don't have their own union.
I really think there is the possibility of moving the sport a long way in a very short space of time if people really want to.

 

[Krebs cycle]

FTP is measured when rested.

Let me repeat: FTP is measured when rested. It is NOT measured when fatigued.

What I am saying is this: if he did that same climb again, rested, instead of after 6 stages of TdF-speed racing, and 150km + 2000m climbing that day, riding in the front group, coming second overall, he would smash 34:50. ie do more than 440W average. At the lightest he's ever been since he was 16.

oh dear oh dear oh dear wiggo

Just can't seem to get anything right can you?.....

“His VAM (Italian for velocità ascensionale media, or average climbing speed) at 4 mM (millimoles; a measure of blood lactate concentration) was 1780 m/h (metres per hour), an excellent value considering the oxygen deficit due to altitude.

“I had him repeat the same test after 4 additional hours of riding, climbing the Albula and Julier Pass, with the purpose of checking his performance over distance: the result was a VAM = 1820 m/h, even better than the first test, probably because of the slight weight loss from the ride.

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/40401/doping-never-discussed-with-ferrari-says-evans

Man I wish I knew as much about cycling performance analysis as you. You're so amazing, you should get a job working as a physiologist for a pro cycling team.

 

[Telmisartan new]

This has been posted in several threads before. Brian links his discussion with Lance on PEDs in 1994 with being asked to leave Motorola.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...rian-Smith-told-cyclist-hed-drugs-sacked.html

Interesting piece,looks like Smith was definitely clean.Shame he spoils it at the end by saying Wiggins won the Tour clean,just when the article was going so well.

 

[bobbins]

Interesting piece,looks like Smith was definitely clean.Shame he spoils it at the end by saying Wiggins won the Tour clean,just when the article was going so well.

Sure looks that way, after all he said it himself.

His girlfriends father paid his salary at Motorola, not the team. Maybe he just wasn't good enough.

He's got some reputation in the uk.

 

[Telmisartan new]

I am sure you are right on most above. But if Brainsford is really as smart as you say he is, having chosen this path must have had other reasons. Maybe he has his own skeletons in the closet that are at risk being exposed, and his current approach mitigates that risk more? It certainly puts the emphasis on the team riders and staff, and keeps his own doping complicity (if there were to be any) relatively exposure free.

Very plausible,Brainsford deflecting attention for other reasons,yep,wouldn't rule it out.Doesn't want any future knighthood affected.

For me personally it would mean alot to see Sky take this action and get rid of some folk.Its never going to convince me that the Tour team wasn't doped but at least it would address some of the lies/hypocrisy from Sky since 2010.It would be a small step in the right direction for them.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

oh dear oh dear oh dear wiggo

Yes, Michele Ferrari tested Cadel. On one day. Not on the 6th day of racing at PT speeds. Averaging 40km/hr for 850km over hilly terrain and a flat out 53km TT before doing this test.

Just can't seem to get anything right can you?.....

You're basically saying Cadel's 4 hr ride - for which you have no idea of the intensity - has the same physiological impact as 5 contiguous stages of a PT race riding into 2nd overall. You're wrong.

 

[MartinGT]

I liked Brian Smith, in that Sky Sports interview you can still see he is very bitter of what Lance did to him and rightly so.

What spoilt it for me was when he started the "Sky are definatly clean" I nearly wet myself.

Come on Brian, Definatly is pushing it lad, have you seen some of the performances this season?

 

[bobbins]

I liked Brian Smith, in that Sky Sports interview you can still see he is very bitter of what Lance did to him and rightly so.

What spoilt it for me was when he started the "Sky are definatly clean" I nearly wet myself.

Come on Brian, Definatly is pushing it lad, have you seen some of the performances this season?

He's clung onto armstrongs coat tails for long enough.

Bitter maybe, squeaky clean. I wonder?

 

[Don Quixote]

oh dear oh dear oh dear wiggo

Just can't seem to get anything right can you?.....

Man I wish I knew as much about cycling performance analysis as you. You're so amazing, you should get a job working as a physiologist for a pro cycling team.

I know absolutely nothing about cycling performance analysis, but common sense alone raised in my mind the very same doubts about your comparison that Wiggo just has in his reply.

How can this be?

I'm really looking forward to your response.

Edit: additionally, he states with the purpose of checking his performance over distance - does this not indicate one continous test, rather than two to be regarded in isolation?

What was his physiological state before the test? Rested or not?

 

[sittingbison]

while you are at it Krebs, maybe a response to my question re: Dodger claiming he was as light as he was at 16yo and you saying Dear Wiggo was a liar?

 

[Tinman]

He's got some reputation in the uk.

I like what I read on Braveheart. It's the grassroots stuff that cycling needs going forward, and that will make the sport come out of this UCI mismanagement debacle stronger.

 

[Tinman]

I know absolutely nothing about cycling performance analysis, but common sense alone raised in my mind the very same doubts about your comparison that Wiggo just has in his reply.

I just wished there would be less personality play and more "playing on the same team" stuff, on topic. The broader blood measurements field has become much more critical, and what you guys (as well as many others here) contribute can/will assist the sport to move forward and create a broader understanding of the issues with cycling fans. But the playing of the man just gets in the way, routinely. And reduces what you guys are presumably aiming for, to build a bit of respect and interest in your posts, and move the debate forward.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I just wished there would be less personality play and more "playing on the same team" stuff, on topic. The broader blood measurements field has become much more critical, and what you guys (as well as many others here) contribute can/will assist the sport to move forward and create a broader understanding of the issues with cycling fans. But the playing of the man just gets in the way, routinely. And reduces what you guys are presumably aiming for, to build a bit of respect and interest in your posts, and move the debate forward.

Point taken. Post modified.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Plenty out there had no positives. Hincapie, Voight, Horner are some of the oldest riders in the peloton in 2012.

hincapie was always with us epostal so was covered by uci until he quit in 2007 something. voigt I believe doped, but only in his csc years, horner may have never doped. who knows? never even accused of anything