Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Mrs John Murphy]

More character assassination, more slurs. He was raised by his mother from a young age, his father was an alcoholic failed cycling pro who died in mysterious circumstances and Wiggins has been a full-time sportsman throughout his life. You tell me what class he is?

I like the moronic 'speaks a foreign language', how dare he speak French, what a posho, and as we know poshos all dope. Oh and people that wear fancy clothes, drug cheats all of them.

This thread is getting seriously derailed by the attempts to besmirch Wiggins' character rather than addressing the issues that should be here in the clinic. Is this place moderated at all?

Sticky - there are absolutely no slurs against Wiggins. There are lots of middle class people with alcoholic fathers and who were brought up by single parents. Single parentdom does not equal working class.

If anyone is showing their bigotry when it comes to Wiggins' background it is you. Wiggins can only be working class in your view because his mother was a single parent.

The reality is that most white British are monolingual and that book learning and foreign languages are looked down upon. Britain is a hugely anti-intellectual place.

Wiggins seems to have been told to downplay that side of his personality and to spin his past to make him sound more working class than middle class.

Just like Contador emphasizes his 'I'm just a poor boy from Pinto' shtick, Ricco and his 'I'd be working as a waiter', Armstrong emphasized his trailer park roots.

A good 'overcoming' story always sells well. I'm sure that there are lots of Wiggins/Sky books ready to come out for stocking fillers this xmas and this is just to lay the ground to sell them.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Sticky - there are absolutely no slurs against Wiggins. There are lots of middle class people with alcoholic fathers and who were brought up by single parents. Single parentdom does not equal working class.

If anyone is showing their bigotry when it comes to Wiggins' background it is you. Wiggins can only be working class in your view because his mother was a single parent.

The reality is that most white British are monolingual and that book learning and foreign languages are looked down upon. Britain is a hugely anti-intellectual place.

Wiggins seems to have been told to downplay that side of his personality and to spin his past to make him sound more working class than middle class.

Just like Contador emphasizes his 'I'm just a poor boy from Pinto' shtick, Ricco and his 'I'd be working as a waiter', Armstrong emphasized his trailer park roots.

A good 'overcoming' story always sells well. I'm sure that there are lots of Wiggins/Sky books ready to come out for stocking fillers this xmas and this is just to lay the ground to sell them.

Wiggins has always said he is from a working class background, the idea that he is making this all up now to sell books makes you sound like a complete cretin to be fair.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

But not as much of a cretin that I'd serve as an online apologist for everything Wiggins says and does like a fanboy like you.

Did I say Wiggins described himself as middle class? Nope, what I said was that he is emphasizing and spinning his working class heroness and downplaying the things that play badly with the monolingual anti-intellectual British mainstream. All of which will no doubt help with the xmas book sales.

Saying you are from Kilburn and not Maida Vale is part of that.

 

[MartinGT]

I've not read here for a few days due to being busy, but WTF has happend in here

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

But not as much of a cretin that I'd serve as an online apologist for everything Wiggins says and does like a fanboy like you.

Did I say Wiggins described himself as middle class? Nope, what I said was that he is emphasizing and spinning his working class heroness and downplaying the things that play badly with the monolingual anti-intellectual British mainstream. All of which will no doubt help with the xmas book sales.

Saying you are from Kilburn and not Maida Vale is part of that.

I'm not sure where all this stuff about me being an apologist for Wiggins comes from, maybe you could direct me to the appropriate quotes. I'm also not sure where all this spin about his working class background comes from, I've re-read the Guardian interview and there is barely a mention of it.

 

[Velo_vicar]

But not as much of a cretin that I'd serve as an online apologist for everything Wiggins says and does like a fanboy like you.

Did I say Wiggins described himself as middle class? Nope, what I said was that he is emphasizing and spinning his working class heroness and downplaying the things that play badly with the monolingual anti-intellectual British mainstream. All of which will no doubt help with the xmas book sales.

Saying you are from Kilburn and not Maida Vale is part of that.

i grew up in West Kilburn and so know the area pretty well. It has also changed alot in 20 years and become posher. But the thing about london is that it is a mix you have little venice (very Expensive) right next to estates where there is real poverty, I lived in an area which while i lived there got yuppified but a few roads away was the Mozart estate which was rough. To critise BW for this is a dead end and would only reveal prejudice. Maida vale has council blocks right next to million pound houses. So i used to say to people at various times i lived in, Kilburn/maidaVale/queen's park (these are not distinct areas they overlap and some are contained in others) and someone who said that could have lived in a amnsion/house/council flat that is the nature of that area of london.

 

[Tinman]

I've not read here for a few days due to being busy, but WTF has happend in here

It's the battle between the fanboys and the clinic working class

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

To quote Jan. If you can't see it then I can't help you.

 

[RownhamHill]

Everyone loves a working class hero, no one likes a middle class ****.

To be fair, he earns approximately five million quid a year, has a home in Spain as well as in the UK, and spends his life jetting around the world doing 'personal appearances' at races between highly paid media and publishing ventures.

Not sure how that lifestyle can possibly be described as middle class. He's surely one of the one percenters now, isn't he?

 

[Snafu352]

Something is up with this guy. He has a penchant for lying. What's up with that?

Why some people have a hard on for going after others based on sod all is beyond me; it makes them look petty and thus harms the cause they apparently support. Strange, almost deliberately destructive behaviour. Almost what you'd expect somebody to do if they wanted to dis-credit the anti doping effort.
If people have got evidence have they given it to Kimmage, the USADA or pretty much any decent newspaper or website? Now would seem to be a good time to get "the truth" out there as the non-cycling medja are all over cycling at present.
Strange that the interent warriors here who apparently all have so much evidence haven't seen fit to deliver it to any of these entities...
Please note I don't know or claim that Sky are clean.

 

[ToreBear]

So is this Kiburn one of the numerous UK governed tax havens, like Gibraltar, jersey etc, where Wiggins can base him self and freely transfer money for drugs and Italian doping advice?

Or is it a testing black hole. A place were testers are known not to be present?

Haven't read the last few pages since this thread has seemed to talk about property development and house prices. I'm wondering if I missed something important?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

So is this Kiburn one of the numerous UK governed tax havens, like Gibraltar, jersey etc, where Wiggins can base him self and freely transfer money for drugs and Italian doping advice?

Or is it a testing black hole. A place were testers are known not to be present?

Haven't read the last few pages since this thread has seemed to talk about property development and house prices. I'm wondering if I missed something important?

It's that perception reality thing again.

 

[Grandillusion]

No, many people say they live in different parts of London depending on what they are trying to say to people. When people want to big themselves up they say they live in the posh area, when people want to re-enforce their working classness, to show how authentic they are, they say they come from the working class place. Stop pretending that class has nothing to do with this. Wiggins is emphasizing the single parent, working class thing, rather than the dress like a ****, speak a foreign language thing which doesn't go down so well with the British mainstream.

Everyone loves a working class hero, no one likes a middle class ****.

The "dress like a ****" thing is Bradley wearing "mod" clothing, which youth cult is very much a working-class thing from the '60s which still has lots of followers. It was a cult which very much appreciated all things Italian re. fashion, clothes etc. An aesthetic appreciation. This aesthetic appreciation would also have extended to speaking a foreign language, which would have been really "cool". British journalists would understand this cultural sublety, which you've just missed and misconstrued.

And he was brought up by a single mother in a one bedroom flat.

And I believe he's clean.

Back to lurking for me.

 

[ToreBear]

It's that perception reality thing again.

Ah ok. Well peception might be important for Wiggins who worked in a coal mine 12 hours a day from the age of 10 to afford his first racing bike. And the shed he, his mom and his four younger siblings whom he worked in the coal mine to support might also be interesting.

Of course if he lied about that, he might lie about something else too?!

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

The "dress like a ****" thing is Bradley wearing "mod" clothing, which youth cult is very much a working-class thing from the '60s which still has lots of followers. It was a cult which very much appreciated all things Italian re. fashion, clothes etc. An aesthetic appreciation. This aesthetic appreciation would also have extended to speaking a foreign language, which would have been really "cool". British journalists would understand this cultural sublety, which you've just missed and misconstrued.

And he was brought up by a single mother in a one bedroom flat.

And I believe he's clean.

Back to lurking for me.

Except that what was a working class fashion has been appropriated by the middle class.

But if it helps you to sleep better at night thinking that Bradley isn't a dope fueled tax avoider, but rather a poor misunderstood working class lad then feel free.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sticky - there are absolutely no slurs against Wiggins. There are lots of middle class people with alcoholic fathers and who were brought up by single parents. Single parentdom does not equal working class.

If anyone is showing their bigotry when it comes to Wiggins' background it is you. Wiggins can only be working class in your view because his mother was a single parent.

The reality is that most white British are monolingual and that book learning and foreign languages are looked down upon. Britain is a hugely anti-intellectual place.

Wiggins seems to have been told to downplay that side of his personality and to spin his past to make him sound more working class than middle class.

Just like Contador emphasizes his 'I'm just a poor boy from Pinto' shtick, Ricco and his 'I'd be working as a waiter', Armstrong emphasized his trailer park roots.

A good 'overcoming' story always sells well. I'm sure that there are lots of Wiggins/Sky books ready to come out for stocking fillers this xmas and this is just to lay the ground to sell them.

I asked you to tell me what class he is, I didn't say what I thought he was and I certainly didn't say he's working class because of a single-mother and alcoholic father. If anyone is anti-intellectual it's you, because you are clearly struggling here.

I asked the question because issues of class are generally pretty muted and blurred in modern British society, but then you wouldn't know that because of the line I highlighted which demonstrates you have absolutely eff all knowledge or understanding of British culture, yet are happy to spout off generalisations on an internet forum.

With that I'm signing off, I will no longer engage with you as I feel my brain cells committing suicide one by one the more I talk to you. I was going to call it debate, but that would be an insult to debating. You're a troll, such a shame this place is so tolerant of people like you

 

[del1962]

Ah ok. Well peception might be important for Wiggins who worked in a coal mine 12 hours a day from the age of 10 to afford his first racing bike. And the shed he, his mom and his four younger siblings whom he worked in the coal mine to support might also be interesting.

Of course if he lied about that, he might lie about something else too?!

I don't think Brad has ever claimed to be from Yorkshire

 

[JimmyFingers]

I've not read here for a few days due to being busy, but WTF has happend in here

Good question

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I asked you to tell me what class he is, I didn't say what I thought he was and I certainly didn't say he's working class because of a single-mother and alcoholic father. If anyone is anti-intellectual it's you, because you are clearly struggling here.

I asked the question because issues of class are generally pretty muted and blurred in modern British society, but then you wouldn't know that because of the line I highlighted which demonstrates you have absolutely eff all knowledge or understanding of British culture, yet are happy to spout off generalisations on an internet forum.

With that I'm signing off, I will no longer engage with you as I feel my brain cells committing suicide one by one the more I talk to you. I was going to call it debate, but that would be an insult to debating. You're a troll, such a shame this place is so tolerant of people like you

Wipe your eyes, and your hands Sticky.

I do love it when people wheel out 'I'm British so I know Britain, you disagree with me so you can't be British' line without knowing where the person actually comes from.

So there you go, making assumptions about people without knowing the first thing about where they come from.

Class is certainly not muted in Britain, every politician and newspaper makes regular mention of class, either to identify themselves as part of a 'squeezed middle class', or to blame the 'feckless underclass', or to deny their 'upper class roots'. Class is as important in British society as it ever was.

'Mockney' is no accidental insult, and has its roots in class, middle class people pretending to be working class, to make themselves into things they aren't to.

Picking the right class is all important in selling yourself to the public. Image and perception is everything.

 

[simo1733]

No, many people say they live in different parts of London depending on what they are trying to say to people. When people want to big themselves up they say they live in the posh area, when people want to re-enforce their working classness, to show how authentic they are, they say they come from the working class place. Stop pretending that class has nothing to do with this. Wiggins is emphasizing the single parent, working class thing, rather than the dress like a ****, speak a foreign language thing which doesn't go down so well with the British mainstream.

Everyone loves a working class hero, no one likes a middle class ****.

How did David Cameron get elected then?

 

[del1962]

Wipe your eyes, and your hands Sticky.

I do love it when people wheel out 'I'm British so I know Britain, you disagree with me so you can't be British' line without knowing where the person actually comes from.

So there you go, making assumptions about people without knowing the first thing about where they come from.

Class is certainly not muted in Britain, every politician and newspaper makes regular mention of class, either to identify themselves as part of a 'squeezed middle class', or to blame the 'feckless underclass', or to deny their 'upper class roots'. Class is as important in British society as it ever was.

'Mockney' is no accidental insult, and has its roots in class, middle class people pretending to be working class, to make themselves into things they aren't to.

Picking the right class is all important in selling yourself to the public. Image and perception is everything.

Do you or have you ever lived in Britain, because from my experience the class thing is much less of an issue that it used to be, unless you are talking about proper Eton toffs.

 

[Grandillusion]

Except that what was a working class fashion has been appropriated by the middle class.

But if it helps you to sleep better at night thinking that Bradley isn't a dope fueled tax avoider, but rather a poor misunderstood working class lad then feel free.

This is silly, but if that's what you want to believe fair enough. I honestly don't care if you are right re; the doping thing, but personally I feel he's probably clean.

 

[Snafu352]

Class is certainly not muted in Britain, every politician and newspaper makes regular mention of class, either to identify themselves as part of a 'squeezed middle class', or to blame the 'feckless underclass', or to deny their 'upper class roots'. Class is as important in British society as it ever was.

Picking the right class is all important in selling yourself to the public. Image and perception is everything.

Thanks, your (lack of any) real knowledge of this subject (whilst claiming to know all) makes it much easier to ignore your thoughts on everything else as well.
PS got any real data on Sky? (The subject of this thread.)
Speculation claimed as truth doesn't count.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Do you or have you ever lived in Britain, because from my experience the class thing is much less of an issue that it used to be, unless you are talking about proper Eton toffs.

Pick up any copy of any of the daily papers and there will be class discussion in there. Whether it is the Mail decrying working class benefit seekers, the Torygraph complaining about the squeezed middle class. Cameron getting upset everytime someone reprints the Bullingdon club photo. Accusations of middle class entitlement, of working class and upper class entitlement (which ever group you happen to dislike most).

Plenty of it in popular culture with celebrities such as Lily Allen pretending to be working class, Mockney as a term of abuse is class laden, Essex girl jokes & the variations on them are class jokes. My Fat Gypsy Wedding or Geordie Shore are class freakshows. Large chunks of terminology are class based 'Chelsea tractor' a 'Croydon facelift', a 'yummy mummy', 'chav', 'pikey' 'gadgey'

Class is very much an issue and almost all social debates are framed in class terms, although everyone denies that class is an issue which is the ironic thing about it all.

 

[thehog]

Pick up any copy of any of the daily papers and there will be class discussion in there. Whether it is the Mail decrying working class benefit seekers, the Torygraph complaining about the squeezed middle class. Cameron getting upset everytime someone reprints the Bullingdon club photo. Accusations of middle class entitlement, of working class and upper class entitlement (which ever group you happen to dislike most).

Plenty of it in popular culture with celebrities such as Lily Allen pretending to be working class, Mockney as a term of abuse is class laden, Essex girl jokes & the variations on them are class jokes. My Fat Gypsy Wedding or Geordie Shore are class freakshows. Large chunks of terminology are class based 'Chelsea tractor' a 'Croydon facelift', a 'yummy mummy', 'chav', 'pikey' 'gadgey'

Class is very much an issue and almost all social debates are framed in class terms, although everyone denies that class is an issue which is the ironic thing about it all.

Comeplety agree. Add to this there's just been the London riots with disaffected youths in regards to class.