Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[DirtyWorks]

ok, back to Sky.

I dont see much difference in Sky to other teams.

The bigger question is, will Sky temper their program, after dominance. I doubt it, this is pro sport. Winning is only that matters.

Froome might have to extend his risk quotient for a Contador and Andy battle

My pessimistic take from comments during the 2012 TdF was places 3-10 were absolutely powerless to stop it and that has started the search for better PED's for 2013 outside Sky.

The way Sky are burying staff and replacing them with swimming coaches suggests it might be a Phil Gilbert 2012 for sky 2013. The other legitimate possibility is they've got the doping formula and a new deal in Spain so they will still kill it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My pessimistic take from comments during the 2012 TdF was places 3-10 were absolutely powerless to stop it and that has started the search for better PED's for 2013 outside Sky.

The way Sky are burying staff and replacing them with swimming coaches suggests it might be a Phil Gilbert 2012 for sky 2013. The other legitimate possibility is they've got the doping formula and a new deal in Spain so they will still kill it.

And what better place to test new drugs / protocols out than at the Giro 2013?

 

[Avoriaz]

Why, yes they do.

As thehog just posted, Everything about them was too good to be true. Especially when you throw Rogers, Yates, Alien Froome I would go even further than Hog's post and claim it was an entire, 100 years historic season for Sky. Not just the TdF and Olympics. What a great way to sell Olympic road-side tickets!

Nice post Hog! (I'll stop now)

Umm, tickets for Box Hill went on sale in May and sold out instantly. Possibly after Romandie but before Dauphine, and WAY BEFORE TdF domination. It was the Cav hype and general Olympic ticket fervour (i had friends and acquaintances trying to buy tickets for anything just to say they were part of the experience) that sold them not Sky dominance.

Thanks

 

[JimmyFingers]

Umm, tickets for Box Hill went on sale in May and sold out instantly. Possibly after Romandie but before Dauphine, and WAY BEFORE TdF domination. It was the Cav hype and general Olympic ticket fervour (i had friends and acquaintances trying to buy tickets for anything just to say they were part of the experience) that sold them not Sky dominance.

Thanks

Cav won SPOTY in a HTC-Highroad jersey too. Oh and the rainbow hoops.

 

[Tinman]

The way Sky are burying staff and replacing them with swimming coaches suggests it might be a Phil Gilbert 2012 for sky 2013. The other legitimate possibility is they've got the doping formula and a new deal in Spain so they will still kill it.

Yes it could go either way. Certainly Leinders, Yates and Rogers will be sorely missed for their skills of ensuring riders' health, driving the car and looking the other way, and doing power calculations going up the TdF mountain stages.

Gilbert has come right again by the way. After that World's performance and testing clean for the win (there were tests right?) he is now Pat's best friend in his latest "building a bright future for the sport" initiative, together with two lawyers, various television producers and a biodiversity expert.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...uild-bright-future-for-the-sport-3316041.html

Hmm, ChangeCyclingNow better be on guard

 

[JimmyFingers]

What is there to listen and learn about the above?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ashenden and Kimmage's assertions. Most fans would - should - agree that. Vaughters and Millar have perhaps been too egregious in spouting their certainty that Sky are clean, but they also know more than most of us forumites.

So we've listened to them, and we've learnt that these two people, both of whom are reformed characters but known former liars, are convinced that Sky is clean.

We have also listened to scientific rationale behind Sky's performance. And we have learnt that, in isolation, most of the trees can be explained away, and that the performance level indicates that it is theoretically possible to win a Grand Tour clean today.

We have categorically not learnt that this theoretical possibility means that it actually happened. There are far too many trees for many people to believe the large level of coincidence required for all of these factors to converge and make for the Tour not just being WON clean, but being absolutely obliterated clean. And with the other factors in place (such as those that caused JimmyFingers, one of Sky's staunchest defenders on the board, to say that they couldn't have looked more suspicious if they tried) and some of the questionable morals of some of the people involved, what more do we need to listen to in order for us to be convinced of Sky's cleanliness?

Certainly for many fans, a lot more than has been presented to us to date.

I think you add David Walsh's voice to that of JV and Millar. As you say, better informed people than here on the forum. But yes you are correct there is no certainty, just opposing opinions and gut instinct. Ashenden and Kimmage are correct in what they say, although perhaps arrogant in asserting if they were in charge we can be totally certain of a clean winner of the tour next year.

And yes Sky have done themselves no favours, but my point is that this is more indicative of clean team, because a dirty one would have been so much cleverer about it. But again, an opinion.

And this what this thread is: a trading of opinions, and it has just become a merry-go-round, complicated by the fact some here just are looking to play games, and others are trying to set themselves up as the new RaceRadio and central to that creedo is Sky's guilt.

The truth will out, eventually. We'll see whose opinion is closest to the mark.

One last point, I'm only a staunch defender because Sky comes under such consistent and furious attack. I know the reasons why, both legitimate and other, but I feel obliged to lumber in and counter some of the worse excesses in this forum, and certainly since my early days here try to do it in a logical manner.

 

[Hawkwood]

Sorry but what's absurd? You argued that the UCI were covering up Sky's doping to make money from sales of Olympic tickets. I have agreed with you. You only had to watch the Olympics to see all the empty venues where the Brits did not have a serious medal contender. They couldn't shift those tickets for love nor money!

I'm not sure that I agree with your final point. I tried several times to buy tickets in any sport, but apart from ones at stupid prices, and I mean stupid, nothing was available. Friends of mine with far more money went to any sport they could buy a ticket for, whether they were interested in the sport or not, and regardless of whether there was a British medal contendor. It was stated that the British Olympic Association gave away large numbers of tickets to associations from other countries, as is routine, but many of these tickets were not used.

 

[RownhamHill]

I'm not sure that I agree with your final point. I tried several times to buy tickets in any sport, but apart from ones at stupid prices, and I mean stupid, nothing was available. Friends of mine with far more money went to any sport they could buy a ticket for, whether they were interested in the sport or not, and regardless of whether there was a British medal contendor. It was stated that the British Olympic Association gave away large numbers of tickets to associations from other countries, as is routine, but many of these tickets were not used.

Ermm, I think that's exactly the point he's trying to make. . .

 

[Hawkwood]

Ermm, I think that's exactly the point he's trying to make. . .

Am I missing something? I thought one of the points he was making was that the British public weren't turning up to events where there was little chance of a British medal.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Am I missing something? I thought one of the points he was making was that the British public weren't turning up to events where there was little chance of a British medal.

Are you one of these Sky fanboys? The UCI fixed the result of the 2012 TDF so that Wiggins would win in order to sell tickets on Box Hill. Why on earth would they do this if the event was going to be a sellout anyway?

The steps taken included banning Contador after a failed drugs test (despite the fact that at other times they had apparently been covering up his failed tests), bribing the ASO to make a route which would suit Wiggins, taking all of Andy Schleck's and Cadel Evans' drugs away and then funding a massive doping programme by Sky and covering all their failed tests (although they presumably forgot to tell Sky about this as they sent their riders to Tenerife to hide from the testers).

Before the Tour, NOT A SINGLE ticket had been sold for a cycling event at the Olympics. After Wiggins won there was a mad rush for tickets and the UCI netted a windfall of approximately $400 million.

Hope that is clearer now.

 

[Hawkwood]

Are you one of these Sky fanboys? The UCI fixed the result of the 2012 TDF so that Wiggins would win in order to sell tickets on Box Hill. Why on earth would they do this if the event was going to be a sellout anyway?

The steps taken included banning Contador after a failed drugs test (despite the fact that at other times they had apparently been covering up his failed tests), bribing the ASO to make a route which would suit Wiggins, taking all of Andy Schleck's and Cadel Evans' drugs away and then funding a massive doping programme by Sky and covering all their failed tests (although they presumably forgot to tell Sky about this as they sent their riders to Tenerife to hide from the testers).

Before the Tour, NOT A SINGLE ticket had been sold for a cycling event at the Olympics. After Wiggins won there was a mad rush for tickets and the UCI netted a windfall of approximately $400 million.

Hope that is clearer now.

All of the tickets for the cycling road, BMX and track events, that were available to the public, were sold out by 23 May. Some further tickets were freed up later due to public/political pressure and when I tried to apply for these the only cycling ones available were extremely pricey, £800 plus if I recall accurately. There was never going to be a problem selling tickets for the cycling events. You could watch the road TT for free. By the time of the Tour if you didn't already have tickets for the cycling events you were stuffed.

 

[ebandit]

fantasy cycling

The UCI fixed the result of the 2012 TDF so that Wiggins would win in order to sell tickets on Box Hill

do you seriously believe this rubbish?

 

[martinvickers]

do you seriously believe this rubbish?

I think your missing the sarcasm.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

do you seriously believe this rubbish?

They were already planning this in 2010, we know this because this is when they chose to release the news that Contador had failed a test, this was obviously done to ensure a free route to glory for Wiggins in 2012. All other failed tests by Contador were covered up, why else would they choose to make this one public if it wasn't to sell tickets on Box Hill? Why did they take so long to ban Contador? Well obviously everyone at the UCI wanted him to stay a likely contender for as long as possible so that they could get better odds on Wiggins with the bookmakers.

 

[martinvickers]

They were already planning this in 2010, we know this because this is when they chose to release the news that Contador had failed a test, this was obviously done to ensure a free route to glory for Wiggins in 2012. All other failed tests by Contador were covered up, why else would they choose to make this one public if it wasn't to sell tickets on Box Hill? Why did they take so long to ban Contador? Well obviously everyone at the UCI wanted him to stay a likely contender for as long as possible so that they could get better odds on Wiggins with the bookmakers.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
One story the guys told me, the story I believe, was from Pat's days in Wicklow. There was a gang of Munster riders that wanted their own race...

 

[Hawkwood]

do you seriously believe this rubbish?

+1
When the facts don't back your argument make them up. Demand for Box Hill tickets was so great the online booking system crashed, and all tickets were sold by 30 May. Oddly this was before the Tour had started!

 

[Hawkwood]

I think your missing the sarcasm.

Have I fallen for this?! Normally don't post much in the Clinic, I think I'll return to that policy.

 

[ebandit]

fun

Have I fallen for this?! Normally don't post much in the Clinic, I think I'll return to that policy.

don't do that you will miss the fun ............poking fun at ridiculous conspiracy

theories...................imagine? how many variables there is in winning the

tdf and someone imagines that the uci can ensure a team sky / brit win

by 1st banning alberto..............then..............................

 

[martinvickers]

+1
When the facts don't back your argument make them up. Demand for Box Hill tickets was so great the online booking system crashed, and all tickets were sold by 30 May. Oddly this was before the Tour had started!

Blasphemer! Persecute! Kill the Heretic!!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

+1
When the facts don't back your argument make them up. Demand for Box Hill tickets was so great the online booking system crashed, and all tickets were sold by 30 May. Oddly this was before the Tour had started!

Obviously they are going to tell you that. Then when Wiggins had won the Tour the UCI were able to flog the tickets off at £800 each. Not a bad bit of business if you can get it. All on the back of Wiggo's Tour win.

 

[Hawkwood]

Obviously they are going to tell you that. Then when Wiggins had won the Tour the UCI were able to flog the tickets off at £800 each. Not a bad bit of business if you can get it. All on the back of Wiggo's Tour win.

They were selling the tickets at £800 and more before the Tour By the time the games started the only seats left were some premium ones, and these were only freed up after other associations and major sponsors gave some of their tickets back. Did the UCI get any money from the ticket sales? I'm not sure that it did as income from ticket sales was costed into the finances for the games. Of course the UCI couldn't `flog the tickets...' as it played no part in selling tickets.

 

[martinvickers]

Obviously they are going to tell you that. Then when Wiggins had won the Tour the UCI were able to flog the tickets off at £800 each. Not a bad bit of business if you can get it. All on the back of Wiggo's Tour win.

i'm a bit Confused, Bernie. Let me get this straight?

the UCI -

- faked a positive dope Test for Alberto in 2010, in order to ban him for the 2012 Tour...
- injured Andy Schleck...
- poisoned Cadel...
- took away Andy and Cadel's drugs, just in case...
- hid all the of Sky positives...
- faked sold out ticket sales for Box Hill and the Mall, months before the Tour, because they were failing to sell...
- designed a particular friendly parcours for the Tour to ensure Wiggins won...
- Oversaw and allowed a full sky doping program to allow them to win the Tour in "never before seen fashion"...

...In order to sell some tickets on Box Hill that nobody would have wanted but for the Tour win - tickets the profits of which went to LOCOG, not IOC;
...And in order to get more British people to watch the Olympic road race and time trial on television because that increases IOC money payout to UCI, even though the mechanism allows for no such hing - presumably the UCI faked that mechanism, or bought off the other other feds to get the rules changed in their favour...

All I can say is, those fiends!!

I would be grateful though if someone could clarify the following, just for transparency sake -

Did the UCI use dirty photos of HTC HighRoad WAGS to force them to sell Cavendish to Sky - in order to sell tickets to Box hill that would never have sold otherwise?

Did the UCI put anything on Fabien Cancellara's wheels to make him crash in the road race? Inquiring swiss minds want to know...

How the UCI get the ticket money off LOCOG? Dirty pictures again?

And finally, just by the by, is it a coincidence that Bradley Wiggins won his first Olympic gold in 2004 and London got awarded the games a year later?

I think not.

The awesome influence of Pat and Hein's olympic friends! Frightening

 

[martinvickers]

They were selling the tickets at £800 and more before the Tour By the time the games started the only seats left were some premium ones, and these were only freed up after other associations and major sponsors gave some of their tickets back. Did the UCI get any money from the ticket sales? I'm not sure that it did as income from ticket sales was costed into the finances for the games. Of course the UCI couldn't `flog the tickets...' as it played no part in selling tickets.

Blasphemer!!!

 

[Hawkwood]

i'm a bit Confused, Bernie. Let me get this straight?

the UCI -

- faked a positive dope Test for Alberto in 2010, in order to ban him for the 2012 Tour...
- injured Andy Schleck...
- poisoned Cadel...
- took away Andy and Cadel's drugs, just in case...
- hid all the of Sky positives...
- faked sold out ticket sales for Box Hill and the Mall, months before the Tour, because they were failing to sell...
- designed a particular friendly parcours for the Tour to ensure Wiggins won...
- Oversaw and allowed a full sky doping program to allow them to win the Tour in "never before seen fashion"...

...In order to sell some tickets on Box Hill that nobody would have wanted but for the Tour win - tickets the prophets of which went to LOCOG, not IOC;
...And in order to get more British people to watch the Olympic road race and time trial on television because that increases IOC money payout to UCI, even though the mechanism allows for no such hing - presumably the UCI faked that mechanism, or bought off the other other feds to get the rules changed in their favour...

All I can say is, those fiends!!

I would be grateful though if someone could clarify the following, just for transparency sake -

Did the UCI use dirty photos of HTC HighRoad WAGS to force them to sell Cavendish to Sky - in order to sell tickets to Box hill that would never have sold otherwise?

Did the UCI put anything on Fabien Cancellara's wheels to make him crash in the road race? Inquiring swiss minds want to know...

How the UCI get the ticket money off LOCOG? Dirty pictures again?

And finally, just by the by, is it a coincidence that Bradley Wiggins won his first Olympic gold in 2004 and London got awarded the games a year later?

I think not.

The awesome influence of Pat and Hein's olympic friends! Frightening

No the conspiracy started back in 1994 if not earlier. The UCI got the Tour organisation to run two stages in Britain to encourage 14 year old Bradley to dream of winning the Tour. The UCI went on to give a large bung to the National Trust so that Box Hill could be used. The Trust, which is well know for being even more devious than the UCI, knew it could also make money through Wiggins winning the Tour through increased sales of home made marmalade etc. There is no end to this conspiracy. Have I got the hang of this yet?

 

[martinvickers]

No the conspiracy started back in 1994 if not earlier. The UCI got the Tour organisation to run two stages in Britain to encourage 14 year old Bradley to dream of winning the Tour. The UCI went on to give a large bung to the National Trust so that Box Hill could be used. The Trust, which is well know for being even more devious than the UCI, knew it could also make money through Wiggins winning the Tour through increased sales of home made marmalade etc. There is no end to this conspiracy. Have I got the hang of this yet?

Are'nt you being just a teeny bit naive, Hawkwood?

The real question is what corrupt UCI bast*ard gave Gary Wiggins the right to cycle and work in Europe? It's so, so, so clever - 'cos even if we finally hand out justice to Dopely Wiggins, Sky, the b*stards, will just turn round, quite happily, and say - an honest mistake, governor - we thought he was an honest Brit, but in actual fact he was a devious, conniving, cheating Belgian of dodgy Australian parentage.

Then they catch Froome - "Bloody african's, what do you expect!!"

And of course, when Millar pings again, as he assuredly will, "typical of Maltesers and the Chinese - long tem dopers, not like us"

It's..it's...genius, and it's everywhere, I tell ya!