Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Reducing the argument to absurdity doesn't help. But, yeah I agree Sky's 100 years historic 2012 stage racing season sold a few more tickets. How much can be attributed to viewership/sales is an open question.

We got some general information, but no specifics about how cycling is quantified and rewarded inside the IOC.

Of course, Box Hill was sold out well before the Tour even started, but I'm sure the certain knowledge of what was coming played a key part in my decision to buy one.

 

[Mellow Velo]

'Gosh, thanks for the compliments.....

Folks: REPORT PROBLEMS TO THE MODS. It is that simple.

And I am the only mod associated with CN in any respect outside of the forum, by the way.

I hope your theories about cycling are better grounded than your theories about the forum mods.

Susan

In that case, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Making up conspiracies that are easily proven to be complete and utter b*llocks is something else.

Crying about forum participants who won't yield to your world view, right or wrong, does nothing.

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

Your turn. Tear it down.

 

[BroDeal]

Crying about forum participants who won't yield to your world view, right or wrong, does nothing.

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

Your turn. Tear it down.

I don't think the Olympics would have much to do with it. The UCI wants to recreate Armstrong. A new champion in a country outside the traditional cycling base brings more money into cycling. It grows the sport far better than putting on races in third world countries. Conveniently, Australia, Canada, and Britain all get their first GT winners. All English speaking too. Nice. What are the odds for that?

 

[wilts rover]

Crying about forum participants who won't yield to your world view, right or wrong, does nothing.

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

Your turn. Tear it down.

I have it on good authority that they are both friends of Alf Garnett and 'helped' with West 'am's bid for the stadium too.

They were however suspiciously absent when 1 million other people stood out in the rain watching the women's race, maybe because none of them ride for Sky, hmm.

You could watch on Box Hill for free without a ticket....I did as did thousands of others.

 

[martinvickers]

I have it on good authority that they are both friends of Alf Garnett and 'helped' with West 'am's bid for the stadium too.

They were however suspiciously absent when 1 million other people stood out in the rain watching the women's race, maybe because none of them ride for Sky, hmm.

Ah, you innocent, innocent, fool.

Have you never noticed how you never see Hein Verbruggen and Lizzie Armistead in the same room at the same time? I mean, when you think about it, it's not even trying hard...

You see, that's what Pat learned way back in Wicklow. All you needed was the will to do what the other guys wouldn't...

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Crying about forum participants who won't yield to your world view, right or wrong, does nothing.

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

Your turn. Tear it down.

I think we have all established now that you were right! McQuaid is even in league with the National Trust to boost marmalade sales as a result of the Tour win it seems.

 

[martinvickers]

I think we have all established now that you were right! McQuaid is even in league with the National Trust to boost marmalade sales as a result of the Tour win it seems.

He's blatant about it! That's the maddening thing - all those jokes about "sticky situations" and the like...taunting us, Bernie, taunting us....

Thank god we have people here who can see though these nefarious schemes...

 

[Cycle Chic]

Your Response

'Gosh, thanks for the compliments.....

Folks: REPORT PROBLEMS TO THE MODS. It is that simple.

And I am the only mod associated with CN in any respect outside of the forum, by the way.

I hope your theories about cycling are better groundd than your theories about the forum mods.

Susan

Its simple Susan - why do you let the threads become farcical ? off topic, personal slanging matches ? WHY ??

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Its simple Susan - why do you let the threads become farcical ? off topic, personal slanging matches ? WHY ??

Because -- as we have said thousands of times -- we rely on our users to report problems. No reports, no action.

Simple.

Yes, it would be nice if we had time to read every single post in every single thread. But since we all work full time and have personal lives as well, it just doesn't happen.

I have actually been off duty for CN yesterday and today, but have moderated here anyway. The boss is going to be real happy about that when he gets the invoice -- but he will be happy if it keeps the forum flowing smoothly.

Susan

ETA: I now report myself for being off-topic. Any further discussion of this issue must take place in the appropriate thread in the appropriate subforum.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Crying about forum participants who won't yield to your world view, right or wrong, does nothing.

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

Your turn. Tear it down.

Would be completely at odds with how they set about trying to dismantle Team GB's track cycling success before London.

Has that torn it down enough?

 

[martinvickers]

Would be completely at odds with how they set about trying to dismantle Team GB's track cycling success before London.

Has that torn it down enough?

Oh, Come on Mellow, you didn't fall for that, did you?

Obviously, that was a ruse to shut down the individual pursuit, to give Wiggins plausible deniability as he went to the road instead.

Obviously.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Crying about forum participants who won't yield to your world view, right or wrong, does nothing.

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

Your turn. Tear it down.

Let me have a crack at this....no I can't disprove it. Then neither can you prove it either. You can say its true, I can say it isn't and so we go round and round and round, sort of like this thread. In fact this becomes the thread in a microcosm, a self-perpetuating delusion, the uncatchable fox being chased by the inescapable hound, irresistible force meets immovable object.

In other words, pointless.

Sometimes I come into this thread and feel like the computer at the end of Wargames: 'learn, learn!'. Other times like Clark Griswald trying to turn left off a London roundabout at the start of European vacation.

In essence you have a load of people talking about things they are not expert in, using poor science and data analysis, without full access to the facts and drawing highly dubious conclusions. On both sides.

But hey it passes the time of day, right?

 

[martinvickers]

Let me have a crack at this....no I can't disprove it. Then neither can you prove it either. You can say its true, I can say it isn't and so we go round and round and round, sort of like this thread. In fact this becomes the thread in a microcosm, a self-perpetuating delusion, the uncatchable fox being chased by the inescapable hound, irresistible force meets immovable object.

In other words, pointless.

Sometimes I come into this thread and feel like the computer at the end of Wargames: 'learn, learn!'. Other times like Clark Griswald trying to turn left off a London roundabout at the start of European vacation.

In essence you have a load of people talking about things they are not expert in, using poor science and data analysis, without full access to the facts and drawing highly dubious conclusions. On both sides.

But hey it passes the time of day, right?

Heretic!! Kill the Unbeliever!!

 

[armchairclimber]

The worrying thing is that some of these crackpot conspiracy theories actually look more credible than some of those put forward by Dear Wiggo, The Hog, Sniper and the rest of the antipodean sour pusses.

 

[BroDeal]

The worrying thing is that some of these crackpot conspiracy theories actually look more credible than some of those put forward by Dear Wiggo, The Hog, Sniper and the rest of the antipodean sour pusses.

They certainly seem a lot more believable than the belief in a miraculous, Phoenix-like rise from the autobus to the podium by a bunch of second and third rate riders. But I suppose there were those who believed in Stephen Schumacher while the rest of us laughed.

 

[martinvickers]

They certainly seem a lot more believable than the British mouthbreathers' belief in a miraculous, Phoenix-like rise from the autobus to the podium by a bunch of second and third rate riders. But I suppose there were those who believed in Stephen Schumacher while the rest of us laughed.

Oh, thank goodness. for a moment I thought you meant my good self. Thank goodness for the Irish Sea!

 

[AcademyCC]

Im still annoyed at Brailsford/Walsh article from Sunday Times. The last paragraph about

His riders are encouraged to maintain an even pace on the climbs and not react to sudden accelerations. It can make for unexciting races in the mountains. "If you want spectacular, jumping all over the place, at crazy speeds, let them dope. You can't have your cake and eat it. That's the reality"

David Walsh deserves every award he gets for his work with Armstrong but:

1) He just let that slide
2) Ideally that wasn't his article to write, too much conflict of interest between Sunday Times/News Corp/SKY - i really can't see how he can ask the important questions re SKY even if he wanted to.

No questions answered at all for me, just more babble without really dealing with the issues at question.

On a different note has anyone read Wiggo's new book? I realize some would rather drink there own **** but he's got his story down pat. My head is officially pickled

 

[DirtyWorks]

Would be completely at odds with how they set about trying to dismantle Team GB's track cycling success before London.

Has that torn it down enough?

Fill in the back story a bit for me here. Who tried to dismantle the GB track program? Why would it matter to a road team?

JimmyFingers, again with the demands for proof for which there is none regardless of the position held. What meets your threshold of incontrovertible "proof" the 2012 sky results were doped?

If you want to wait 3-10 years for the inevitable Sky scandal "proof" and be treated like an idiot by the UCI until then, then I guess cycling is mostly like entertainment wrestling with no pretense of a legitimate sports competition?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Fill in the back story a bit for me here. Who tried to dismantle the GB track program? Why would it matter to a road team?

Beijing: GB dominate the Olympic track programme winning 7 gold medals.
The UCI introduce a one rider per nation race rule, that was intended to make domination much harder and spread the medals around more nations.
Resulted in GB having to pick either the current World Champ, or the current Olympic champ, for the sprint, in London.

Why would it matter?
Dave Brailsford runs both GB track and road programmes.
In the UK, track cycling generates huge interest.

As for the need to generate interest for the rr, did you see the roadside turnout for the 2007 Tour that started in the UK?

I have a conspiracy theory for you: Did you know that Box Hill is an anagram of Bollhix?

 

[JimmyFingers]

JimmyFingers, again with the demands for proof for which there is none regardless of the position held. What meets your threshold of incontrovertible "proof" the 2012 sky results were doped?

Not sure you're getting what I'm saying. Or what you said yourself. You demanded we 'disprove the conspiracies' so in turn I you asked to to prove the conspiracies. So you ask what proof I need, beyond you saying it is so?

BTW we were talking about your UCI conspiracy theories engineering the tour win, not just that Sky doped.

I don't know how many times I have to say I'm not certain Sky didn't dope, because that is simply stupid, but my opinion is that they didn't.

I suggest you look up opinion. What you say is one, what I say is another.

 

[ferryman]

OK troops, whilst funny, the blame UCI/Sky posts are really cluttering up the thread. And will just more than likely result in similar responses when the Australian members are back on-line. And round and round we go

I don't think any particular post merits deletion but it may come to that, so please, back on topic (of sorts at least). Same will apply to any posts in response to the blame Sky ones of a similar nature.

Cheers

 

[JimmyFingers]

It should be fine until someone uses the culture card. Then it begins all over again

 

[Parker]

So, go ahead and disprove the conspiracies. I've got one and it's full-on crazy. My crackpot theory is Pat and Hein assisted in making the Sky 2012 fairy tale to boost Olympics interest/turnout.

We can't disprove it. But we can point out things that make it stupid.

Here's some things to mull over.

1. Eight of GB's gold medals in Beijing came from cycling - the British public were aware that this was the hot ticket years ago.

2. The British public turned out in surprisingly good numbers for the test event in 2011

3. The British public turned out in huge numbers for the torch relay which started in May.

4. The British public turned out in big numbers just to watch the 50km walk - the most boring event in the Olympics.

To suggest that Wiggins's win was anything to do with the Olympics is just stupid.

Now, I think Sky are clean, but there are legitimate questions to be asked (eg Leinders), but trying to shoehorn each and every little thing into a doping story exposes you and others for what you really are - moronic fanatics.

 

[JimmyFingers]

They won't take that lying down..