Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[martinvickers]

I think Stephen Hawking would have been a better choice is all. Being British and all.

Ok, that's a good call, wiggo, i have to give you that - and he's far more likely, i might add, to say Eat that, b!tches !

Truce?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Such a shame they let Rogers go without the bonus of pointing to his departure as a clear indication of the relentless pursuit of their ZTP. That would have been really convincing.

Sky's zero tolerance policy is not of doping per se, it is of having dopers on their books in the future who a reasonable observer would conclude could have been identified in advance from readily available information.

Thus, Rogers is moved on, presumably with a decent payoff and a tight confidentiality clause, and is thus "clean" by the normal standards of the peloton.

As Sky is largely indistinguishable from the UK national squad, they have to be able to blame any subsequent doping scandal in respect of an employee as the employee lying (having been given the chance to fess up and get paid off) rather than as failed "due diligence" by Sky during recruitment.

Unless there is a doping scandal in the future, then whether Sky have lied/been hypocritical re ZTP/emplyed dodgy doctors etc. will remain the primarily the interest of a small minority, headed by Kimmage, who isn't that hard to portray as something of a nutcase. (He may or may not be, but he gives a good impression of being a stranger to logic and reason these days.)

Sky will be out of cycling in a few years - probably once Wiggo and Hoy have retired - so they have no vested interest in clean cycling as such. Their interest (and of the powers that be in UK cycling) is in establishing a credible defence should the balloon go up in the next couple of years.

 

[martinvickers]

Worth noting that the IOC has historically been as dodgy as they come in terms of sports governing bodies. If they think that there's money to be made from more cycling, they will be after that money for themselves, not for the UCI.

Agree entirely - Half surprised they didn't insist on all 19 World track champ events being run, over ten torturous days - hell, surprised they didn't try and insist that a temp. velodrome be put up inside the olympic stadium itself first week so they could sell 80000 tickets instead of 6000. Because i guarantee 80,000 brits would have bought tickets to the velodrome.

They just aren't as nimble as they used to be, these ioc bods...

 

[martinvickers]

Unless there is a doping scandal in the future, then whether Sky have lied/been hypocritical re ZTP/emplyed dodgy doctors etc. will remain the primarily the interest of a small minority, headed by Kimmage, who isn't that hard to portray as something of a nutcase. (He may or may not be, but he gives a good impression of being a stranger to logic and reason these days.)

I think that's maybe a bit unfair on Kimmage. He's a fanatic, in the very best sense of the word -and he's been treated so badly down the years that he is suspicious as a first position, which he can't really be blamed for. The cycling world needs, one way or the other, to protect the kimmages - but it also needs to have space for the possiblity of improvement in the sport. not always easy to balance the sceptic and the hopeful....

And never forget, he's Irish. We Irish don't tend to just give the British the benefit of the doubt - it has historically been a foolish position to adopt, even if we're 'all friends now'!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

You were being sarcastic Martin?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I think that's maybe a bit unfair on Kimmage. He's a fanatic, in the very best sense of the word -and he's been treated so badly down the years that he is suspicious as a first position, which he can't really be blamed for. The cycling world needs, one way or the other, to protect the kimmages - but it also needs to have space for the possiblity of improvement in the sport. not always easy to balance the sceptic and the hopeful....

And never forget, he's Irish. We Irish don't tend to just give the British the benefit of the doubt - it has historically been a foolish position to adopt, even if we're 'all friends now'!

I agree he's been badly treated, but life isn't fair. All true martyrs suffer for their cause, with no guarantee of a happy ending.

He's a fanatic, but needs to be a diplomat as well.

Being a "shock jock" has worked well for him up to now, but if he wants any sort of involvement in cycling in future - instead of sniping from the sidelines - then he needs to tone down the rhetoric and make friends in the peloton instead of enemies. If he can't do that, then for the sake of the cause to which he has aligned himself, he needs to STFU.

 

[Hawkwood]

Ludo...is he the ex Begium champion who told testers he'd been taking stuff, but then passed the test anyway?
Being signed as DS for Sky so he can share his secrets??

Yep. always liked his spirit though. Didn't he work spraying lorries or vans in a factory before turning pro?

 

[coinneach]

Yep. always liked his spirit though. Didn't he work spraying lorries or vans in a factory before turning pro?

perfect for Sky then...join the dots!!!

 

[coinneach]

Ok, that's a good call, wiggo,

Truce?

What, truce on the Sky thread??
We'll never get the triple crown (1,000 + 10,000 + 1,000,000) that way.

You wanting a job on the UN dealing with Palestine or what?

 

[Hawkwood]

perfect for Sky then...join the dots!!!

How does spraying Daf trucks make you perfect for Sky? Plus fessing up for doping when you're not doped up doesn't sound very clever!

 

[MatParker117]

Sky's zero tolerance policy is not of doping per se, it is of having dopers on their books in the future who a reasonable observer would conclude could have been identified in advance from readily available information.

Thus, Rogers is moved on, presumably with a decent payoff and a tight confidentiality clause, and is thus "clean" by the normal standards of the peloton.

As Sky is largely indistinguishable from the UK national squad, they have to be able to blame any subsequent doping scandal in respect of an employee as the employee lying (having been given the chance to fess up and get paid off) rather than as failed "due diligence" by Sky during recruitment.

Unless there is a doping scandal in the future, then whether Sky have lied/been hypocritical re ZTP/emplyed dodgy doctors etc. will remain the primarily the interest of a small minority, headed by Kimmage, who isn't that hard to portray as something of a nutcase. (He may or may not be, but he gives a good impression of being a stranger to logic and reason these days.)

Sky will be out of cycling in a few years - probably once Wiggo and Hoy have retired - so they have no vested interest in clean cycling as such. Their interest (and of the powers that be in UK cycling) is in establishing a credible defence should the balloon go up in the next couple of years.

The relationship between Sky and British Cycling was recently extended through the Rio games and Team Sky is funded through 2015.

 

[JRanton]

There are now 200,000 more people cycling regularly in Britain than there were a year ago:

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/ab...gold-rush--200-000-rise-in-regular-cyclists-0

Look at all the good things they're doing!

 

[thehog]

There are now 200,000 more people cycling regularly in Britain than there were a year ago:

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/ab...gold-rush--200-000-rise-in-regular-cyclists-0

Look at all the good things they're doing!

Send more Chinese EPO! Raise the hemocrit to 60% and they'll be 300,000 by 2013.

 

[JRanton]

Wonder if Froome dawg will hang around and get treated like a second class citizen again.

Or maybe say to hell with it and ditch Wiggins on a TdF climb and put time into him.

Be interesting to see how Rogers goes at Saxo too. Given the close similarities between Sky and US Postal, you'd be half expecting one of their vacating elites to get pinged in the 12-36 months following.

Such a shame they let Rogers go without the bonus of pointing to his departure as a clear indication of the relentless pursuit of their ZTP. That would have been really convincing.

Still Shane Sutton to deal with though. Wonder if that is ever going to get handled properly or just continue on its merry, unbelievable way.

Plenty of things to look forward to.

Servais Knaven is still there too. He's signed the document and is now presumably Sky's head sports director.

 

[maltiv]

Brailsford: “It’s hard to find somebody but we’re not going to change our policy. When you arrive at this point, you’re perhaps obliged to back off from performance for a little bit in order to maintain your stance on anti-doping. There’s what we’re going to do. I’d prefer that we stick to our philosophy and go backwards with our results, rather than try to do everything and wrangle a bit to stay on top. The most important thing isn’t just winning.”

...anyone else who read this as: "We're getting off the juice in 2013"?

 

[martinvickers]

Brailsford: “It’s hard to find somebody but we’re not going to change our policy. When you arrive at this point, you’re perhaps obliged to back off from performance for a little bit in order to maintain your stance on anti-doping. There’s what we’re going to do. I’d prefer that we stick to our philosophy and go backwards with our results, rather than try to do everything and wrangle a bit to stay on top. The most important thing isn’t just winning.”

...anyone else who read this as: "We're getting off the juice in 2013"?

could you link to that quote, please, thanks.

 

[JRanton]

Brailsford: “It’s hard to find somebody but we’re not going to change our policy. When you arrive at this point, you’re perhaps obliged to back off from performance for a little bit in order to maintain your stance on anti-doping. There’s what we’re going to do. I’d prefer that we stick to our philosophy and go backwards with our results, rather than try to do everything and wrangle a bit to stay on top. The most important thing isn’t just winning.”

...anyone else who read this as: "We're getting off the juice in 2013"?

A drop in performance doesn't just have to be related to doping. I'd imagine morale is pretty low in the ranks, they've lost a lot of experience and ''expertise'' and there will undoubtedly be resentment amongst staff with regards to the zero tolerance policy. For example, a large part of the reason that Dombrowski and Boswell joined Sky in the first place was due to the presence of Bobby Julich and they were set to move to Nice in France to live near him. He was also Porte and Froome's coach who live just across the border in Monaco. Cyclists are creatures of habit. They don't like change and there has been an awful lot of change in the senior management at Sky.

 

[JRanton]

could you link to that quote, please, thanks.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-still-searching-for-directeur-sportif

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-still-searching-for-directeur-sportif

Johan? Maybe Lance?

 

[MatParker117]

Johan? Maybe Lance?

I know Rob Hayles has turned down an offer and someone else who's name escapes me.

 

[ebandit]

trollin'

Johan? Maybe Lance?

still trollin' along hoggie.........brailsford states he is looking for the right

'untainted' ds

 

[thehog]

I know Rob Hayles has turned down an offer and someone else who's name escapes me.

Mr. 55% himself.

Matt could you put my CV forward? I can think up some more marginal gains.

 

[brucegolla]

Team Sky policy

I think Brailsford is a hypocrite. Look at the guy, He's lying about his past too. I think they should clean house on team management on all the pro teams. Brailsford kicking x dopers off his team? he has been around the track a long time and I know he has seen some ****. Sky is an uber wealthy sports money machine and I don't trust them as far as I could throw Brailsford.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I think Brailsford is a hypocrite. Look at the guy, He's lying about his past too. I think they should clean house on team management on all the pro teams. Brailsford kicking x dopers off his team? he has been around the track a long time and I know he has seen some ****. Sky is an uber wealthy sports money machine and I don't trust them as far as I could throw Brailsford.

I like the cut of your jib

 

[dolophonic]

A drop in performance doesn't just have to be related to doping. I'd imagine morale is pretty low in the ranks, they've lost a lot of experience and ''expertise'' and there will undoubtedly be resentment amongst staff with regards to the zero tolerance policy. For example, a large part of the reason that Dombrowski and Boswell joined Sky in the first place was due to the presence of Bobby Julich and they were set to move to Nice in France to live near him. He was also Porte and Froome's coach who live just across the border in Monaco. Cyclists are creatures of habit. They don't like change and there has been an awful lot of change in the senior management at Sky.

That is very kind of you .. i think there are a few ways of looking at this statement. The way they completely crushed the peloton this year and the line "back off performance" does not sound like bad morale .. more like no more hot sauce..