Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Don't be late Pedro]

Not a word from Brailsford or Wiggins.

Disgusting that they're protect the omertà.

You're the one with the 100% guarantee that Wiggins is working with Ferrari. You are clearly protecting the omertà as well since you refuse to take it further.

On the flip side you could be making it up to make it sound like you have some kind of inside knowledge like RR when in fact you are clueless.

I wonder which one it is?

 

[martinvickers]

Brailsford should be sacked.

I mean to go from a stated policy of hiring British doctors who hadn't previously worked in cycling to hiring Geert Leinders is unforgivable.

There is absolutely no chance of Brailsford being sacked, short of being found with syringes in his pocket - he simply has built up far, far too much goodwill in GB, especially on the track. Even to call for it is, frankly, wishful thinking.

The solid truth is, those who don't like/trust/accept the bona fides of/ Sky may be a majority on this board, but they are a minority of cycling fans, and a miniscule minority of cycling fans in GB.

Having got David Walsh onside, they have even split the fearsome Irish Twosome of Walsh/Kimmage.

Kimmage is your best bet going forward, with Ashenden, for 'taking out' sky. But, for what it's worth, Sky and BC have a very good record of convincing who they need to when they need to - UKSport back in the Keen days, IOC, UCI, BSkyB, News Corp, the British public (3 SPOTYs in 5 years) - if they decide they need to convince WADA and/or Ashenden, they'll put the hard yards in to that, and I reckon they would succeed.

Really, only Kimmage is, in my view, liable to hold out.

Even on CCN, Sky has fans and defenders - think about that. Even CCN.

Now, why is Sky not part of MPCC?

 

[JRanton]

where has he said in 2009 that he would only hire british doctors outside of cycling?

Brailsford and Team Sky reconsidered their medical policy – initially no practitioners with a background in cycling were to be hired

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/11/dave-brailsford-team-sky

That's from the first article on google. This policy was widely touted by Sky when the team was being set up and they ran with until hiring Leinders at the end of a very disappointing 2010 season.

 

[Froome19]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nys-leinders-is-a-very-honest-person

Would be idiotic to bring attention to himself if Leinders was up to no good with him.

 

[veganrob]

Brailsford is so couterfeit. His argument about hiring a doctor in the business to care for someone like Txema Gonzalez. Really!! What rare illness could he have died of that only a doctor in cycling could treat. Come on.

 

[will10]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nys-leinders-is-a-very-honest-person

Would be idiotic to bring attention to himself if Leinders was up to no good with him.

Yeah because that would be the first time a pro cyclist has said anything idiotic.

So Het Nieuwsblad ask Nys about the Rabobank scandal - what are you expecting he'll say? I confess, I've been doping with Leinders for years, strip me of all my titles?

It's called omertà and it's here to stay.

 

[Ferminal]

No, CX is clean, so Leinders by default must no longer dope athletes (I think he stopped some time around 2009).

 

[thehog]

You're the one with the 100% guarantee that Wiggins is working with Ferrari. You are clearly protecting the omertà as well since you refuse to take it further.

On the flip side you could be making it up to make it sound like you have some kind of inside knowledge like RR when in fact you are clueless.

I wonder which one it is?

Why get personal? This is not about me.

This is Sky hiring a Doctor who injects chemicals into then bloodstreams of young men.

Your anger should be directed at them.

 

[Mellow Velo]

You're the one with the 100% guarantee that Wiggins is working with Ferrari. You are clearly protecting the omertà as well since you refuse to take it further.

On the flip side you could be making it up to make it sound like you have some kind of inside knowledge like RR when in fact you are clueless.

I wonder which one it is?

Ha ha, touché!
Certainly ruffled old Hoggies feathers.
Defender of Omerta, indeed.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/11/dave-brailsford-team-sky

That's from the first article on google. This policy was widely touted by Sky when the team was being set up and they ran with until hiring Leinders at the end of a very disappointing 2010 season.

ok, thanks. I don't understand about txema gonzalez though, he was a doctor with sky until he died and then they hired leinders?

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nys-leinders-is-a-very-honest-person

Would be idiotic to bring attention to himself if Leinders was up to no good with him.

Shock horror! A cyclist defending their chosen doctor!

I think it's time we asked the mods to restore from backup tape the 2002 version of this forum with a search and replace on USPS with Sky!

Personally I'm shocked. First and foremost we should be fans of cycling not one team. After the 'Armstrong Affair' I cannot believe fans of cycling want to give Sky a pass on this one.

If Sky were called 'El Skyo Espana' you'd be baying for their blood in the streets of Seville.

Cycling is the loser today.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah because that would be the first time a pro cyclist has said anything idiotic.

So Het Nieuwsblad ask Nys about the Rabobank scandal - what are you expecting he'll say? I confess, I've been doping with Leinders for years, strip me of all my titles?

It's called omertà and it's here to stay.

like it or not but like 90% of riders under leinders never doped, even within rabo a select few got the special treatment. and cyclo cross I suppose is quite clean unless you can prove otherwise

 

[Joachim]

Why get personal? This is not about me.
.

Well he has got a point. You have said categorically several times that Ferrari is employed by Wiggins and Sky. You offered no evidence to back up this assertion. Now you are saying, categorically, that Leinders was doping athletes at Sky.

Now you might be right about either or both of these claims, but without any attempt at substantiation it is just hot air.

Less noise, more substance. In fact just some substance would be nice.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Why get personal? This is not about me.

This is Sky hiring a Doctor who injects chemicals into then bloodstreams of young men.

Your anger should be directed at them.

lol, chemicals? probably not any worse than what 30% of the western population take with anti depressants, valium and other ****. really don't bring up the ridiculous health thing again, or show me some riders who died doping

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You're the one with the 100% guarantee that Wiggins is working with Ferrari. You are clearly protecting the omertà as well since you refuse to take it further.

On the flip side you could be making it up to make it sound like you have some kind of inside knowledge like RR when in fact you are clueless.

I wonder which one it is?

I love this post

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Shock horror! A cyclist defending their chosen doctor!

I think it's time we asked the mods to restore from backup tape the 2002 version of this forum with a search and replace on USPS with Sky!

Personally I'm shocked. First and foremost we should be fans of cycling not one team. After the 'Armstrong Affair' I cannot believe fans of cycling want to give Sky a pass on this one.

If Sky were called 'El Skyo Espana' you'd be baying for their blood in the streets of Seville.

Cycling is the loser today.

except back then the us epostal riders rode much harder then the sky riders do now. just check any mountainstage and see the incredible difference, look at the first 3 minutes of alpe dhuez 2003 on youtube. pls do it I wait 3 minutes. also no former sky riders getting caught, when riding for different teams. besides back then many us epostal riders weren't climbers. hincapie with his 83 kg was suddenly destroying climbs, landis who was 178 and 69 and let's not forget king lance with his 177 and 73 kg. he was heavier for f*** sake than ullrich, now they all drop weight to follow on climbs, that's right follow, because you will never see wiggo hurt anyone on a climb. so in the end you have zero evidence for all of this. and I'm an intense sky hater myself

 

[JRanton]

There is absolutely no chance of Brailsford being sacked, short of being found with syringes in his pocket - he simply has built up far, far too much goodwill in GB, especially on the track. Even to call for it is, frankly, wishful thinking.

The solid truth is, those who don't like/trust/accept the bona fides of/ Sky may be a majority on this board, but they are a minority of cycling fans, and a miniscule minority of cycling fans in GB.

Having got David Walsh onside, they have even split the fearsome Irish Twosome of Walsh/Kimmage.

Kimmage is your best bet going forward, with Ashenden, for 'taking out' sky. But, for what it's worth, Sky and BC have a very good record of convincing who they need to when they need to - UKSport back in the Keen days, IOC, UCI, BSkyB, News Corp, the British public (3 SPOTYs in 5 years) - if they decide they need to convince WADA and/or Ashenden, they'll put the hard yards in to that, and I reckon they would succeed.

Really, only Kimmage is, in my view, liable to hold out.

Even on CCN, Sky has fans and defenders - think about that. Even CCN.

Now, why is Sky not part of MPCC?

There are many non-News Corp companies who would like nothing more than to help bring down Team Sky. The Daily Mail for example. They had a good crack at Team Sky and Brailsford in the aftermath of the USADA report and that led to the new zero-tolerance policy and the departures of Yates, Rogers, De Jongh and Julich.

There's plenty happening behind the scenes. UKADA investigations and a very senior Sky and GB cycling employee has been accused by three separate former teammates of doping during his career. He's toast. That's the next ''event'' to look foward to in the New Year.

Sky might have all the watches but we have all the time.

 

[JRanton]

ok, thanks. I don't understand about txema gonzalez though, he was a doctor with sky until he died and then they hired leinders?

No, Gonzalez was a team soigneur who died in somewhat mysterious fashion at the 2010 Vuleta. A number of riders also fell ill from a separate virus.

Brailsford used those incidents as justification for hiring Geert Leinders (that they needed an experienced doctor who had worked in cycling). Despicable really if you ask me. Bruyneel/Armstrong levels.

 

[JRanton]

except back then the us epostal riders rode much harder then the sky riders do now. just check any mountainstage and see the incredible difference, look at the first 3 minutes of alpe dhuez 2003 on youtube. pls do it I wait 3 minutes. also no former sky riders getting caught, when riding for different teams. besides back then many us epostal riders weren't climbers. hincapie with his 83 kg was suddenly destroying climbs, landis who was 178 and 69 and let's not forget king lance with his 177 and 73 kg. he was heavier for f*** sake than ullrich, now they all drop weight to follow on climbs, that's right follow, because you will never see wiggo hurt anyone on a climb. so in the end you have zero evidence for all of this. and I'm an intense sky hater myself

Ryo, you thought Ivailo Gabrovski was clean so I'm not exactly sure that you're best placed to judge which riders are doping and which aren't.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

No, Gonzalez was a team soigneur who died in somewhat mysterious fashion at the 2010 Vuleta. A number of riders also fell ill from a separate virus.

Brailsford used those incidents as justification for hiring Geert Leinders (that they needed an experienced doctor who had worked in cycling). Despicable really if you ask me. Bruyneel/Armstrong levels.

yeah that sure sounds like ****. no though I'm sure he wished he'd never hired him, although if next year sky is just as strong it proves leinders didn;t dope them, which I also believe that he cleaned up his ways already in the end of rabo, knowing how tight it got.

 

[Joachim]

There's plenty happening behind the scenes. UKADA investigations and a very senior Sky and GB cycling employee has been accused by three separate former teammates of doping during his career. He's toast. That's the next ''event'' to look foward to in the New Year.

Frankly I would be shocked if Team Sky didn't have ex-pro riders on its support staff who are also ex-dopers.

Sky's zero tolerance approach may be hypocritical, it may be more about PR than anything else, but saying 'you won't get a job with us if you are a known doper, and if you are subsequently exposed you are sacked' is certainly better than doing nothing.

Getting people out of the system forever is the way forward.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

yeah that sure sounds like ****. no though I'm sure he wished he'd never hired him, although if next year sky is just as strong it proves leinders didn;t dope them, which I also believe that he cleaned up his ways already in the end of rabo, knowing how tight it got.

When you look at the SKY results of 2010 pre Leinders and compare them to the Leinders era you will see some distinction. Nothing to see here, move along.

The boys just had saddlesores.

 

[theyoungest]

Wiggins was already 4th in the Tour on Garmin, for the people who've forgotten. And he was climbing at the level of Nibali then as well.

Considering that was his first attempt at GC in a grand tour, it's normal he makes some improvement. He's still no Contador or Schleck, but they weren't there this year so suddenly he was one of the best climbers in the Tour.

He didn't need Geertje Leinders for that.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Wiggins was already 4th in the Tour on Garmin, for the people who've forgotten. And he was climbing at the level of Nibali then as well.

Considering that was his first attempt at GC in a grand tour, it's normal he makes some improvement. He's still no Contador or Schleck, but they weren't there this year so suddenly he was one of the best climbers in the Tour.

He didn't need Geertje Leinders for that.

exactly

....

 

[thehog]

Wiggins was already 4th in the Tour on Garmin, for the people who've forgotten. And he was climbing at the level of Nibali then as well.

Considering that was his first attempt at GC in a grand tour, it's normal he makes some improvement. He's still no Contador or Schleck, but they weren't there this year so suddenly he was one of the best climbers in the Tour.

He didn't need Geertje Leinders for that.

...and what of our good friend Mr. Froome? How does one explain that science experiment?!

WE need to call him the "ET hypothesises" in this argument. Whilst one explains Wiggins "natural" improvement similar comparison does not apply to the Froome phenomenon.

Now we know about Lienders the dots clearly join to those "suspect" performances of Sky very neatly.


For simplicity; If "Wiggins" is Y and "Froome is X then X is not equal to Y thus "doping". Period.