Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Hitch]

Have you heard Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds?

What about this - "Imagine all the people sharing all the world".

Im very sceptical that someone could have imagined that without lots of meds- mind enhancing drugs.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

What about this - "Imagine all the people sharing all the world".

Im very sceptical that someone could have imagined that without lots of meds- mind enhancing drugs.

Yep, there was that as well. And don't forget his time up L'Alpe d'Huez.

 

[martinvickers]

"Is Wiggins the best cyclist in the world? He's not even the best cyclist at Sky..."

Why am I thinking ringo Starr??

 

[Hugh Januss]

This is naive and / or strawmanish (expect to hire an avg gp with no experience).

Experienced GPs who have worked for sports teams have enough experience to work with a pro cycling team. The human body doesn't differ just coz you're a pro cyclist - it reacts the same way to treatment and suffers the same maladies. Where do you think all the amateur cyclists go for treatment? Do you really think pros experience something different to an amateur?

Leinders was hired when?

Atfer Txema died. Txema, who had been ex-doper Millar's soigneur and again, close personal friend, back in the day. And in that same race, a number of Sky riders had to pull out.

Txema was in hospital. No GP is going to trump hospital and A&E care. Noone.

The saddle sore post above is due to the fact that that was one of the reasons given by Brailsford for the hiring of Leinders. Saddle sores. And riding in the heat.

Why do saddle sores seem inextricably tied in with doping?

 

[thehog]

This is naive and / or strawmanish (expect to hire an avg gp with no experience).

Experienced GPs who have worked for sports teams have enough experience to work with a pro cycling team. The human body doesn't differ just coz you're a pro cyclist - it reacts the same way to treatment and suffers the same maladies. Where do you think all the amateur cyclists go for treatment? Do you really think pros experience something different to an amateur?

Leinders was hired when?

Atfer Txema died. Txema, who had been ex-doper Millar's soigneur and again, close personal friend, back in the day. And in that same race, a number of Sky riders had to pull out.

Txema was in hospital. No GP is going to trump hospital and A&E care. Noone.

The saddle sore post above is due to the fact that that was one of the reasons given by Brailsford for the hiring of Leinders. Saddle sores. And riding in the heat.

I'm saddened that fans of cycling are making excuses for Sky's behavior. We get what we deserve.

Not a word from Brailsford or Wiggins.

Disgusting that they're protect the omertà.

It's 2004 Lance zipping the lips all over again.

 

[wirral]

I'm saddened that fans of cycling are making excuses for Sky's behavior. We get what we deserve.

Not a word from Brailsford or Wiggins.

Disgusting that they're protect the omertà.

It's 2004 Lance zipping the lips all over again.

Everybody's thinking 'bout the bottom line. Am I going to gross 7,6 or 5 figures next year in €, £ or $?

 

[oldcrank]

I'm saddened

Don't be sad, be happy. Pay heed to Paul Weller:

"...you're just a dreamer if you don't realise
and the sooner you do will be the better for you
then we'll all be happy and we'll all be wise
and we'll all bow down to the burning SKY

then we'll all be happy and we'll all be wise
and together we will live beneath the burning SKY."

 

[Joachim]

It's 2004.... all over again.

I thought you said it was 2002, again?

Make your mind up, I'm getting vertigo from all the time travel.

 

[Mellow Velo]

An interesting perspective.
Another WT team, another rider named in affidavit in USADA's report
as a big player in the dope dealing stakes.
How this for screening?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vacansoleil-clears-bole-of-doping-allegations

"Bole, in front of our doctor, our lawyer, his manager and me underpinned his innocence by answering a few questions. He thereby denied having engaged in doping."

Of course, they don't have a zero tolerance policy, but in the light of Katusha's UCI cold shoulder.........

 

[theyoungest]

Come on, since when is the ability to answer a few questions with "no" not a sign of a clear conscience?

BTW I don't see the difference between what Vacansoleil are doing and the Sky approach.

 

[ebandit]

lucky

I'm saddened that fans of cycling are making excuses for Sky's behavior. We get what we deserve.

Not a word from Brailsford or Wiggins.

Disgusting that they're protect the omertà.

It's 2004 Lance zipping the lips all over again.

pheee.....eeew! luckily it's not about you hoggie..........who? is making excuses............observers are merely stating that 3 + 3 may not equal 7

i received a card from brad.......don't take it hard that he forgot yourself

it's xmas do you really expect an announcement replying to the clinic
curmudgeons grumbling about rumours

soon be 2013 hope your lucky and keep diving into the swill

 

[Ferminal]

Come on, since when is the ability to answer a few questions with "no" not a sign of a clear conscience?

BTW I don't see the difference between what Vacansoleil are doing and the Sky approach.

Sounds exactly the same, although Bole passed and Rogers et al failed (not that there aren't dopers on Sky's payroll who managed to pass).

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

there's one thing I would like to say about bole. a friend of me personally, an italian knew bole pretty well as an u23 and junior rider. bole tried all he could to get on an italian team(via my friend) and out of slovenian u23 racing. bole said it was full of dope and he didn't want any of it. now it might be that bole either lied(my friend believed him and he had reasons) or that he changed his attitude as a pro, or that he is indeed clean.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Come on, since when is the ability to answer a few questions with "no" not a sign of a clear conscience?

BTW I don't see the difference between what Vacansoleil are doing and the Sky approach.

No, I agree. Very much the same.
That's why I posted it, not to lay blame.
Short of employing a few ex-Interpol dics, teams have either to accept
the word or rider in question, or the rider/report/news links naming names.
Only probable difference is that Sky would now opt for caution, while Vacan have stood by their man.

 

[JRanton]

Again.
If true, this I find quite compelling.
Would like to read that at source.
Good that somebody around here has done their homework.

Paris-Nice

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,24793_7552127,00.html

Romandie

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25179_7692582,00.html

Dauphine

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25669_7784970,00.html

 

[JimmyFingers]

...except Brailsford proclaimed in 2009 when setting up Sky that all team doctors would come from outside cycling to prevent any suspicion. He then went against that policy to sign... Leinders, of all people. I suppose Fuentes and Ferrari were unavailable.

Very silly to use those two names, Leinders is very far from their level, although I can see how it suits the agenda to make him so. He is still missing an entry on dopeology and so far we have just hearsay. Lazy

 

[Mellow Velo]

Paris-Nice

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,24793_7552127,00.html

Romandie

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25179_7692582,00.html

Dauphine

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25669_7784970,00.html

Thanks for that. There, in b+w. I bet they wish it wasn't.

 

[Ferminal]

Thanks for that. There, in b+w. I bet they wish it wasn't.

Hasn't been removed though, nothing to hide?

 

[JRanton]

Even at matches was the subject avoided: "After Amstel Gold Race was a rider totally broken. Back in the bus gave the team doctor - Leinders, yes - a pill. He said take it tonight, not now, because if you get tested , youre screwed. "

"But that rider did not listen well and take that pill in his throat and swallow it. Turned out he was gonna get tested. Great stress. Leinders furious. Leinders gave him soon another drink and another pill. Blood Nervously he pee. Pale fortunately nothing wrong. Leinders What has given him? I do not know, but he has certainly saved him. Leinders knows all the tricks. Such a pill we got often. then recovered better, said Leinders."

I think we all know why Leinders came so ''highly recommended'' to Sky and Brailsford.

 

[thehog]

Very silly to use those two names, Leinders is very far from their level, although I can see how it suits the agenda to make him so. He is still missing an entry on dopeology and so far we have just hearsay. Lazy

Yes a long way.

He jabs young cyclists with syringes topped full of EPO and extracts then refuses their blood. Leinders should be named Good Samaritan of the year.

Its just hearsay I tell you.

Leinders is innocent!

Free Geert! An innocent victim of blind justice.

No other way to skin this cat. He is meant to be a medical professional. Bestowed with the title to protect people. Instead he injects chemicals into the bloodstreams of young men.

He's just as sick as Ferrari or Funetes.

The fact that Sky hired him shows exactly what there about.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yes a long way.

He jabs young cyclists with syringes topped full of EPO and extracts then refuses their blood. Leinders should be named Good Samaritan of the year.

Its just hearsay I tell you.

Leinders is innocent!

Free Geert! An innocent victim of blind justice.

No other way to skin this cat. He is meant to be a medical professional. Bestowed with the title to protect people. Instead he injects chemicals into the bloodstreams of young men.

He's just as sick as Ferrari or Funetes.

The fact that Sky hired him shows exactly what there about.

my god what an idiotic post. I'm sure everyone could tell him leinders was the devil incarnated. by 2009, nobody knew any of this yet, let alone someone outside of road cycling like brailsford. I'm sure it's a mistake he regrets for a long time.

 

[JRanton]

Yes a long way.

He jabs young cyclists with syringes topped full of EPO and extracts then refuses their blood. Leinders should be named Good Samaritan of the year.

Its just hearsay I tell you.

Leinders is innocent!

Free Geert! An innocent victim of blind justice.

No other way to skin this cat. He is meant to be a medical professional. Bestowed with the title to protect people. Instead he injects chemicals into the bloodstreams of young men.

He's just as sick as Ferrari or Funetes.

The fact that Sky hired him shows exactly what there about.

Brailsford should be sacked.

I mean to go from a stated policy of hiring British doctors who hadn't previously worked in cycling to hiring Geert Leinders is unforgivable.

 

[JRanton]

my god what an idiotic post. I'm sure everyone could tell him leinders was the devil incarnated. by 2009, nobody knew any of this yet, let alone someone outside of road cycling like brailsford. I'm sure it's a mistake he regrets for a long time.

How about the riders on Rabobank who worked with Leinders?

You know guys like Steven de Jongh, Sky DS since 2010, Matt Hayman and Flecha.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

where has he said in 2009 that he would only hire british doctors outside of cycling?

 

[martinvickers]

my god what an idiotic post. I'm sure everyone could tell him leinders was the devil incarnated. by 2009, nobody knew any of this yet, let alone someone outside of road cycling like brailsford. I'm sure it's a mistake he regrets for a long time.

1. If the 'leak' about Leinders from Leipheimer turns out to be true, and I suspect it will, then it does look very very difficult for Brailsford. At the very least, he has let a viper in the nest. If the leak is true, there is no better conclusion, and several worse ones. clinicians will of course choose the conclusion they find most personally attractive.

2. On the other hand (and 'les patrons' of the clinic will turn on me for this ), I think it is at least worth noting the number of riders who have immediately come out in support from Leinders, saying 'nothing' to see here. not because it's true, (I don't personally believe that for a second) but one wonders if, for what ever reason, there were a lot of people ready to 'vouch' for Leinders, and were any of them in the ear of Brailsford saying, oh he's great, he's legit.

3. come what may - and again, Sky did dump him, and that was before USADA - come what may, using Peters during interviews has some sort of human lie detector has got to stop - it's plainly failed, even if we only look at Yates, De jong, etc.

4. Finally, sky are going to have to get used to monday morning quarterbacks. If this leinders thing proves anything, it's that 'the benefit of the doubt' has no place in cycling any more. Probably rightly. People are going to be expected to dig, and dig deep, before hiring - and for a team like Sky, well resourced and publically committed to racing clean, taking people's word is no longer going to wash, if it ever did.

We must await further events now, i suppose...