Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[badboygolf16v]

He is not entirely untrue, given the fact the bio pass is a hoax. Dope up to 132 but watch the controls. Just like 1997: stay within the 50% rule.

Ashenden helped setting up that new rule. If I am wrong please feel free to correct.

If you're saying Ashenden's intent was to set it up to allow doping, you're wrong. Ashenden resigned from the biopassport panel. Why was that then?

OP was saying that Ashenden's in it for the celebrity.

Bull****.

That's the same argument used by people who called Novitsky and Tygart 'publicity seekers' trying to 'make a name for themselves.'

 

[Dear Wiggo]

To add, if I am not mistaken, wasn't Wiggins training in '09 being overseen by British Cycling and not Garmin. I believe JV brought this up. Curious.

Thanks to being asked by yours truly...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He mentioned that he didn't work much with Wiggins beyond seeing his test results (that's performance tests) and telling him he could become a GT rider.

This is the ex-doper proven liar / fabricator JV we're talking about here.

Notice how not once in any interview anywhere, does JV mention Wiggins "produce more of your power from aeorbic sources" as being a reason for Wiggins GT potential?

He has only mentioned it here, AFTER Krebs Cycle started talking about MAOD.

If you check the timeline, it looks like JV mentions "aerobic IP blah blahs" on the forum first. But there's a post with a part-quote that proves Krebs mentioned it first, then JV came out with his alleged "Wow Brad, you produce more of your power from aeorbic sources, you could be a good GT rider!!"

But I have problems with this:
1. why would he tell Brad? - he doesn't even mention doing a MAOD test for Brad
2. Why doesn't Brad already know, having been in BC for so many years? Why doesn't BC (and therefore attention to detail Sky) know this already? They do not offer him a contract for 2009!
3. Not even KC or acoggan know if a MAOD has ever been conducted on Brad, let alone what the results are. They simply hypothesize the test, its results and extrapolate from there. JV is no better.

I do not believe JV knows it for a fact at all. I believe he picked up info from Krebs Cycle and stated it as if it was fact.

Does Brad mention JV saying this to him, anywhere, in any of his books?

 

[sniper]

To add, if I am not mistaken, wasn't Wiggins training in '09 being overseen by British Cycling and not Garmin. I believe JV brought this up. Curious.

c/would mean that Dan Hunt and Wiggo were already collaborating back then and there.

...
Does Brad mention JV saying this to him, anywhere, in any of his books?

good question.
be interested to learn what role, if any, wiggo ascribes to vaughters in terms of promoting his road carreer.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

good question.
be interested to learn what role, if any, wiggo ascribes to vaughters in terms of promoting his road carreer.

Encouragement - that's all he needed. Brad didn't believe in himself, and then he did and -BAM- 4th in a GT. -BAM- win every race he wants to in 2012.

All because JV believed in him.

Same story for Tom Danielson.

Curious that the same story trotted out MANY years ago to explain how JV was helping Danielson (teaching him to pace himself) is the same sort of story trotted out now by Yates or whoever wrt Froome.

Great talents but longer races they needed better pacing "technical skills" is what it's called by those coaches.

 

[hfer07]

Yes, they will set out to lose races, that'll be what they do(?). Bet it's ridiculous posts like that which help Wiggo ignore all the sensible things that do get said here.

as sensible as his 400 watts rational of winning Tours?

Fine:
Lets have another season of Sky's domination from Algarve, to P-N, Tirrreno, Romandie, Dauphine, ToS- and to top it all: One-two podium in the Giro, Two place Podium in the Tour & One-two spots in the Vuelta..........and forget about those "haters" spewing "sensible things" said on CN

.......................& nobody is suppose to doubt it-right?

Shame Kimmage has gone down the road of speculation, really devalues his own stock and gives credence to his enemies. The strength of his journalism was nailing down the facts and evidence nobody else would talk about. With remarks like those in this interview he joins the rabble who talk too much, suspect a lot but don't actually seem to know anything of relevance. Good luck to him finding a job if that his game now.

indeed-he was just "speculating" & "taking too much" when he spoke out about LA...........................oh wait!!!!

 

[The Hitch]

as sensible as his 400 watts rational of winning Tours?

Fine:
Lets have another season of Sky's domnation from Algarve, to P-N, Tirrreno, Romandie, Dauphine, ToS- and to top it all: One-two podium in the Giro, Two place Podium in the Tour & One-two spots in the Vuelta..........and forget about those "haters" spewing "sensible things" said on CN

.......................& nobody is suppose to doubt it-right?





indeed-he was just "speculating" & "taking too much" when he spoke out about LA...........................oh wait!!!!

I think some of ya'll.need to.be careful of predicting what sky will.do.next year otherwise people will be able.to come back with comments like " i thought sky were going to dope their way to hundreds of wins".

Next year almost certainly can't be as good. Contador is back. Schleck is back. The 1 week races won't all be tt fests for wiggins. Rogers is gone. The tour doesn't suit them like.last year. Froome won't have anywhere near as good a team as wiggins did.

And from a doping point of.view, if they are doping it could always have been a 2012 Olympics thing

 

[Ferminal]

I think some of ya'll.need to.be careful of predicting what sky will.do.next year otherwise people will be able.to come back with comments like " i thought sky were going to dope their way to hundreds of wins".

Scenario 1: Sky have a relatively poor 2013.

Interpretation A: This proves their doping in 2012, look how bad they are without mega dope.

Interpretation B: Completely realistic performances, they would be doing better if they were doping.

Scenario 2: Sky have a very strong 2013.

Interpretation A: Sky obviously still doping like crazy to dominate.

Interpretation B: Shows that 2012 was not an aberration, they are performing consistently therefore unlikely that doping explains their results.

 

[simo1733]

Could Team Sky be brought crashing down due to bad publicity even if they didn't dope.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Could Team Sky be brought crashing down due to bad publicity even if they didn't dope.

UK is their primary market, I believe. Unlikely bad publicity would get far there, due to libel laws and Sky's influence in the media.

 

[The Hitch]

Scenario 1: Sky have a relatively poor 2013.

Interpretation A: This proves their doping in 2012, look how bad they are without mega dope.

Interpretation B: Completely realistic performances, they would be doing better if they were doping.

Interpretation C. Bailsford has been unable to replace Lienders

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Scenario 2: Sky have a very strong 2013.

Interpretation A: Sky obviously still doping like crazy to dominate.

Interpretation B: Shows that 2012 was not an aberration, they are performing consistently therefore unlikely that doping explains their results.

Interpretation C. Bailsford has been able to replace Lienders

 

[The Hitch]

Ha. Nicely done.

 

[Franklin]

The only thing that Kimmage say's is relevent is Leinders, but then why not compeare with Rabbobank (less shocj value I guess).

Considering the court decision that would indeed have been the correct comparison.. and would show exactly the problem.

On a side note, the "he can never satisfy the wolves" nonsense is just nonsense.

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

1. Wiggins should not have gone back on his word. He fully realizes the critics are 100% right in questioning him, so why cry about it? Be upfront and say that you understand our scepticism.
2. Be transparent. He realized years ago that that was the only way forward. So why the change?
3. The lies and cover ups about hiring Leinders are absolutely ridiculous.

Brailsford/Wiggins only can look at themselves about why people question them. They simply show they are not to be trusted on their word on exactly the biggest issue in Cycling right now. And that's worrisome.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I for one hope Sky ride to the best of their ability and smash the peloton for 6 in every race.

The supremacy of British breeding, genes, technology and team management, coupled with Australian coaching and performance management needs to be unleashed.

Let's see a real show of UK power on the pro tour scene in 2013.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Scenario 1: Sky have a relatively poor 2013.

Interpretation A: This proves their doping in 2012, look how bad they are without mega dope.

Interpretation B: Completely realistic performances, they would be doing better if they were doping.

Scenario 2: Sky have a very strong 2013.

Interpretation A: Sky obviously still doping like crazy to dominate.

Interpretation B: Shows that 2012 was not an aberration, they are performing consistently therefore unlikely that doping explains their results.

lol, yes Team Sky almost guarantees another 10k posts in the clinic this year.

 

[blackcat]

^ genius dear wiggo.

we miss MGTHB since it disappeared with Captain T Bag

 

[Mellow Velo]

c/would mean that Dan Hunt and Wiggo were already collaborating back then and there.

Clearly, Sky hiring Leper Leinders was just cover ploy for their real dark lord, Donkey man Dan.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

^ genius dear wiggo.

we miss MGTHB since it disappeared with Captain T Bag

he's back: http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/39275467411/pro-cyclist-survey

 

[sniper]

Clearly, Sky hiring Leper Leinders was just cover ploy for their real dark lord, Donkey man Dan.

for all we know he might be. he entered cycling in 2005. cycling wasn't clean yet in 2005.
have you looked at his palmares? have you looked at cyclign in the past 20+ years? do i need to say more?

 

[Mellow Velo]

for all we know he might be. he entered cycling in 2005. cycling wasn't clean yet in 2005.

i don't see why you'd be giving anyone at Sky the benefit of the doubt. they have to show they're clean for me to trust them. Not that they'll care much about what I think, but so be it.

cycling and UCI thrive on fans like you, willing to forget about what happened in the past 20+ years. "don't worry just watch"-fans. you're not alone, that's for sure.

While I can't claim to Hog-like insider information about the Sky road set up, I'm pretty sure I'm far more clued up about the track.

All I'm saying on here.

 

[sniper]

While I can't claim to Hog-like insider information about the Sky road set up, I'm pretty sure I'm far more clued up about the track.

All I'm saying on here.

yeah, i modified my previous post a bit, as it was unnecessarily insulting. I don't think you are the typical "don'T worry just watch" fan. you seem rather knowledgeable about cycling (at least a lot more than i), and you do have some sensible posts as well, in spite of your pro-sky stance. But still, the whole brittish success in track and road cycling over the past years culminating in the 2012 dominance should simply raise eyebrowes, mine and yours. So whoever was at the heart of that success is a potential enabler in my book.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes, they will set out to lose races, that'll be what they do(?). Bet it's ridiculous posts like that which help Wiggo ignore all the sensible things that do get said here.

Shame Kimmage has gone down the road of speculation, really devalues his own stock and gives credence to his enemies. The strength of his journalism was nailing down the facts and evidence nobody else would talk about. With remarks like those in this interview he joins the rabble who talk too much, suspect a lot but don't actually seem to know anything of relevance. Good luck to him finding a job if that his game now.

Kimmage put the questions out there. Simple. In order for Brailsford/Wiggins/Sky to end the suspicions he needs to answer those questions to the satisfaction of people like Kimmage.

Kimmage is now a freelance journalist like so many. Stop with the pathetic jibes.

 

[mherm79]

Next year almost certainly can't be as good. Contador is back. Schleck is back. The 1 week races won't all be tt fests for wiggins. Rogers is gone. The tour doesn't suit them like.last year. Froome won't have anywhere near as good a team as wiggins did.

+1 None of the riders really challenged them so they rode tempo. They kept a core group of riders around Wiggo for all of his races whilst other teams waited for the TDF to bring all their riders together.

At the TDF, we all knew that given the TT's only Evans was a challenger and both he and BMC were below par.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

+1 None of the riders really challenged them so they rode tempo. They kept a core group of riders around Wiggo for all of his races whilst other teams waited for the TDF to bring all their riders together.

At the TDF, we all knew that given the TT's only Evans was a challenger and both he and BMC were below par.

Can you define "tempo"?

Is this the same definition in training where tempo is zone 3 and threshold is zone 4?